Hard to start when cold and when hot

[christopher.lafollette]

Hello all, I have a 1985 Suburban with a 350 and Quadrajet carb, recently been having trouble starting in the mornings and after running and hot it is nearly impossible to start. It sounds like it's really grunting to get going and I have a brand new starter and fairly new battery. Could it be timing? Can I adjust that without a timing light? Thanks

[bake74]

     I would start with the timing myself.  Adjust without a timing light, I know some old timers that could get it really close, and then dial it in to run the way they wanted to.
     It would be best to borrow one or even rent one at a auto parts store.  Remember that bad plugs, wires, distributor, all can affect how it starts and runs.  But I would check all those item's and for sure the timing just to be safe.

[christopher.lafollette]

Thank you, so should I retard it a little or advance it? I just put new plugs and wires in also.

[bd]

To address labored cranking, generally retard the timing in small steps, a few degrees at a time.  However, at some point you'll need to use a timing light; probably better to do it now rather than risk introducing another problem.  As bake74 suggested, rent one if necessary.  You should also verify the condition of your battery cables - they can corrode under the insulation, where it can't be seen.  If the cables are original, consider replacing them with 2-gauge copper or larger, or run voltage drop tests.  Make sure the cables are tight at both ends.  And, consider having the battery and starter tested on the vehicle.  Many auto parts stores will perform testing at no charge.

[christopher.lafollette]

Thank you for the info.

[christopher.lafollette]

Anyone have any ideas on a good high torque mini starter for a 350? I also need a heat shield, do you recommend a wrap or a metal shield?

[dvdswan]

unless your compression is over 11:1 I wouldn't waste the money on a high torque starter.

[christopher.lafollette]

I cannot start it after driving for awhile, it just won't turn over and it's a really labored start. Also the cold mornings is really hard to start. Brand new starter and shimmed correctly.

[christopher.lafollette]

As far as the timing, where should it be? at zero? I've heard of people timing it all the way to -12.

[bd]

Have you inspected and/or replaced your battery and battery cables... or run any voltage drop tests?  Labored cold and hot cranking suggests insufficient voltage.  Do you have headers?  Do you have any exhaust leaks?  Have you verified the ignition timing?  Are there any other engine configuration particulars about which you haven't told us?

[bd]

As far as the timing, where should it be? at zero? I've heard of people timing it all the way to -12.

The emission label on the radiator support will tell you the proper timing, at least until you get a handle on the labored cranking.  Advancing the timing prematurely will exaggerate cranking issues.

[christopher.lafollette]

Have you inspected and/or replaced your battery and battery cables... or run any voltage drop tests?  Labored cold and hot cranking suggests insufficient voltage.  Do you have headers?  Do you have any exhaust leaks?  Have you verified the ignition timing?  Are there any other engine configuration particulars about which you haven't told us?

I have inspected all the cables and battery. Yes I do have headers. No exhaust leaks that I can hear. I adjusted the timing tonight by advancing it a little seems to run a lot smoother. I guess we will see in the morning when it's really cold. I probably need a whole new distributor and maybe an alternator although the alternator pushes out 15 volts when tested.

[bd]

Thank you for that complete answer.  If your headers shroud the starter motor, exhaust heat will definitely heat soak the starter and solenoid.  Exhaust leaking into the vicinity of the starter could cause similar symptoms.  The compact mini starters typically allow improved air circulation while they provide an option to re-clock the solenoid away from excessive heat.  However, before throwing another starter at it to the tune of $200, I strongly recommend that you perform voltage drop tests across the cables as described in this related post:  56 Chevy Starter clicks - how can you check a bad ground cable?  Perform the tests both cold and hot when the symptoms appear.

Although your battery cables appear physically passable, there can exist hidden resistance problems.  Installing a new starter without correcting such issues may gain little to nothing.  As you stated, there's a new starter on it now.  So, take the time to perform the referenced tests.  Of course, an alternative gamble is simply to replace the existing cables with 2-gauge all copper wire without testing....

To answer your earlier question, Summit Racing and the like sell High-Torque Mini Starters to fit small block GM trucks.  I use the 820323-OS along with a DEI Versa Shield heat blanket with excellent results.  But first I verified there was no unwanted resistance in the cabling or ground.