Author Topic: 5.7L to 7.4L swap AND 6.6L to 5.7L swap  (Read 3834 times)

Offline MuddiGGEr25

  • Registered Users
  • *
  • Posts: 243
  • Wrencher
5.7L to 7.4L swap AND 6.6L to 5.7L swap
« on: February 20, 2016, 03:40:54 pm »
Ok just a quick background on the situation,

I have a 1981 Class C motorhome on a 1979 G30 Chevyvan chassis, with a seized 400 (6.6L)

I have a 1988 V10 suburban now with 1984 (C6P) K20 springs and axles NP208 4.10 gears and LR E tires. currently has the tbi 5.7L i have another thread open on.

I have someone with a unknown year 7.4L carb'd in a 1986 K10 4x4 with the SM465, 75,000 miles from donor, the rest is unknown, I will have a video of the 7.4L running since it is over 200 miles north east of me.

He is interested in trading my Onan 4.0 kW genset from the RV listed above for the 7.4L.

I think thats a fair trade for a decent running 7.4L? genset street value = $400-$900 depending on region


 I do not REeeeeeaaly need the genset since there is 400W of solar coming in from the roof, and I have a 200A 10SI alternator that can power the roof air via inverter with ease (estimated draw of the roof A/C on high is 75-85A ~ 900-1000W @12V)

So later this week I will have a video of it running, and the truck it is powering, then my wife and I can decide if we want to trade.


Here are my intentions that I want second opinions on:

1: pull the 4bbl 400 from the RV and toss it in storage until I can tear it down and see how much of the $7,000 rebuild is savable

2. Pull the TBI 350 from cliffy (thats the name of our burb, only condition of sale when we bought him was that we dont change his name) and transplant it and the PCM, and relays into the RV

3. Install the 454 into cliffy and use a regulator to knock the TBI pump down to 7-9psi but leave it operational for the severe cold weather starts here in the dakotas


Cliffy has a TH350, I know many people will say a TH350 cannot stand up to towing OR the power of a BBC, I will tell you right now, this TH350 handled 17,000+lbs @ 55mph for 280 miles up and down hill, and about an hour of that  was in white out conditions with the 4x4 locked. the temps never even got near the "normal" zone when towing.   I have no hesitation in thinking this TH350 can handle the 7.4L if it is stock or near stock.

The RV has a TH400, it was "stock" rated for the 10,500lbs of the RV full, and 3,000-5,000lbs trailer but it has been rebuilt and the paperwork for that is on its way mid next week.

I DO NOT want to try to swap the transmissions, I want to match the 5.7L to the TH400 and the 454 to the built TH350, i know this is bassakwards from how most would do it, but i have limited resources and funds.


I know I will need a flex plate for the 454 that has the wieght for the external balance, and the bolt holes for the TH350 converter

I know I will need to go grab an inline fuel pump for the 5.7L TBI to go into the RV, those are readily avaiable at local parts stores

what are my chances of the A/C, PS from the 79 400 bolting up to my 87 350?

the 7.4L will not come with a carb, but i have the rebuilt Q-jet 750cfm from the 400, will that be sufficient?

Anything i am missing? the RV has new true dual exhaust, and cliffy does too, but I am thinking I might need to go bigger for the 454

will the TH400 converter bolt up to the TH350 flexplate? or will i need another one for the 5.7? or is it possible to swap converters between the 2?


I will be reusing most of the fluids that are there since only 39K on cliffy and, 4K on the RV fluids

The RV will also be flat towing cliffy this summer via towbar he is about 4,800-5,000 when he is empty empty


Anything obvious I am forgetting?
1988 V10 Suburban 5.7L TBI/TH350 39K on rebuild 4.10AR GM14FF/GM10SF 235/85R16 & 18.4-16.1

1988 V20 Suburban 6.2L-J/TH400 CA truck, 125K G80 14FF/ GM10 4.10AR GVWR 8,600

1977 Ford Granada ~450HP 302 2bbl/C4 27K original 2.47 215/70R14

Offline Stewart G Griffin

  • Senior Member
  • ****
  • Posts: 3324
Re: 5.7L to 7.4L swap AND 6.6L to 5.7L swap
« Reply #1 on: February 21, 2016, 05:55:10 am »
My opinion is to stop messing with used engines/parts.  This is something i've always done, but NO MORE.

Get a 383HT for the RV.  If you can't afford it, wait until you can.

That just is my opinion.

Offline roundhouse

  • Senior Member
  • ****
  • Posts: 1474
  • Newbie
5.7L to 7.4L swap AND 6.6L to 5.7L swap
« Reply #2 on: February 24, 2016, 06:10:20 am »
I've never seen an alternator or solar panel that can run a rooftop AC
I'd recheck your amp/volt math
I've not seen a V belt driven alternator with enough juice to run a rooftop AC
Plus you're idleing the engine all day which will be really bad for a carbed engine

A rooftop AC usually pulls 15-20 amps @ 120 volts
That's gonna be 2000 amps @ 12 volts.   Or about 10x what your solar will putout
Plus the initial startup surge will be almost double that
You're gonna need the genset to run the AC

And I'd just buy a crate engine that will actually fit without all the issues
Especially if you're gonna be towing a burb with the motorhome

That's a lot of weight to be moving around
And a LOT LOT LOT of weight to be stopping

if you're flat towing I'm assuming you don't have a brake setup on the burb ?

I've seen some brake systems for flat towing that use a surge brake setup hooked to the towed vehicles brake pedal

You plan on towing the burb withe the 208 in N ?
Flat towing will burn up a auto Trans in the towed vehicle and may damage the 208 if it doesn't sling enough oil around inside


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
« Last Edit: February 24, 2016, 06:23:16 am by roundhouse »

Offline MuddiGGEr25

  • Registered Users
  • *
  • Posts: 243
  • Wrencher
Re: 5.7L to 7.4L swap AND 6.6L to 5.7L swap
« Reply #3 on: March 06, 2016, 05:43:27 pm »
My opinion is to stop messing with used engines/parts.  This is something i've always done, but NO MORE.

Get a 383HT for the RV.  If you can't afford it, wait until you can.

That just is my opinion.

I have a split vertebrae in my lowest back from 10 years ago that will never heal, and i cant afford surgery, 2 bad knees, and heart problems on top of all that, im limited to my service call "self employment" and 8-12 at a local transmission shop, as of right now, i crest out around $300 after bills are paid, and most of that is used for gas for us both to work, and food and TP, soaps, etc. waiting till I can, I will be 80 by which time I will be either dead or in no physical shape to do the swap.


1988 V10 Suburban 5.7L TBI/TH350 39K on rebuild 4.10AR GM14FF/GM10SF 235/85R16 & 18.4-16.1

1988 V20 Suburban 6.2L-J/TH400 CA truck, 125K G80 14FF/ GM10 4.10AR GVWR 8,600

1977 Ford Granada ~450HP 302 2bbl/C4 27K original 2.47 215/70R14

Offline MuddiGGEr25

  • Registered Users
  • *
  • Posts: 243
  • Wrencher
Re: 5.7L to 7.4L swap AND 6.6L to 5.7L swap
« Reply #4 on: March 06, 2016, 06:32:58 pm »
I've never seen an alternator or solar panel that can run a rooftop AC
I'd recheck your amp/volt math
I've not seen a V belt driven alternator with enough juice to run a rooftop AC
Plus you're idleing the engine all day which will be really bad for a carbed engine

A rooftop AC usually pulls 15-20 amps @ 120 volts
That's gonna be 2000 amps @ 12 volts.   Or about 10x what your solar will putout
Plus the initial startup surge will be almost double that
You're gonna need the genset to run the AC

And I'd just buy a crate engine that will actually fit without all the issues
Especially if you're gonna be towing a burb with the motorhome

That's a lot of weight to be moving around
And a LOT LOT LOT of weight to be stopping

if you're flat towing I'm assuming you don't have a brake setup on the burb ?

I've seen some brake systems for flat towing that use a surge brake setup hooked to the towed vehicles brake pedal

You plan on towing the burb withe the 208 in N ?
Flat towing will burn up a auto Trans in the towed vehicle and may damage the 208 if it doesn't sling enough oil around inside


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


I think you should double check your math lol, my inverter is rated at 88% effeciency, i have attached a pic of the label from the bottom of the inverter (btw its $500 unit so its not one of those walmart ones) it says 168A maximum input current @ 10-15V assuming either charging or float voltage. the 1wire unit I have, is NOT vbelt, it WAS, however I swapped it over to my serp pulley off my 78A reman, that could not keep up with my 60A load driving around town 600-2000RPM, by battery was constantly dead. This Alt can keep up with that same 60-100A load, at night sub blasting, radio pulling, all 4-6 headlights on, and all running lights including the ones I added AND front and rear 20A blower fans at the same time. and my battery is always full and i never drop below 13V even when im jumpstarting someone. I was told it is either a 150A or 200A peak, but most of it is produced above 2000RPM.


yes rooftop A/C pulls 1500W-1700W MAXIMUM, but its much less when on med or low, or even on hi with the T-stat around middle. realistic (using a watt and amp meter on the 110V input cord) medium fan and tstat around half is 600-900W constant + the surge which is a good 1000W for a split second. this inverter is rated 1500W constant, 1725W for 3 minutes and 3000W surge.

So on an average day lets say 900W once the compressor is going = 8 Amps of 110V current.


https://www.batterystuff.com/kb/tools/ac-to-dc-amperage-conversion-run-through-an-inverter.html

That means assuming less than ideal inverter efficiency, say 85%, we need 80-90A per hour of 12V-14V current to achieve that.

I already know that my burb with 2 20A heater fans, and 17A of headlights + ~3A of running lights + 20-30A for the sub amp and radio = 80-90A easily, it might be even more since the amp and radio can pull more the higher the volume goes, this is just the reading i have from my multimeter testing.

Nothing listed above will be installed in the RV so that excess power will be readily available, i will have a simple radio installed but no subs.

Lets take the Solar into consideration now: 100-400W of power available in direct sunlight, so 8A-30A will be produced on a bright summer day per hour depending on demand.


So Alt (60-80 excess) + Solar (8-30) = 68-110A of available excess 12-14V power.

The momentary surge of 300A for the compressor to kick in would be handled by the AGM solar batteries.

So in closing, 80-90amps to run the A/C on medium down the highway, and 180+ momentary surge for the A/C to kick in (1-5seconds)

It is very very doable.

Now to the buying an engine suggestion, as i stated in the last post that is extremely unrealistic, unless my health drastically improves via miracle.

Next the weight to move/stop accusation  ;D if you look at the next picture, this is the burb with the 350 in question towing the aforementioned RV on a 3,000+lb deckover trailer and the RV is 7,500-8,000 on the trailer. so 10,000-11,000 GTW, then cliffy (the burb) was almost dead on the 8,000 mark if iirc, with all tools, air compressor, extra tires, food, fuel, etc. so GCW 18,000-19,000 and pulled to 55mph with miminal complaints.

Now that being said, I have just learned as of last night that my 02 on cliffy has 0 wires going into it and the connector was just hanging out under the brake booster area. and review of the readout shows that the PCM has been unable to enter closed loop due to this problem, and there fore cannot learn the block or adjust A/F ratios, and its running lean and hot, well 205-210 is hot in my book while towing, and the knock sensor kept kicking back my timing because of this the entire time. so I am quite sure once that is remedied later this week, i will have significantly better throttle response and tq. So moving the weight is no issue. since the RV fully loaded is only rated to 10,500 and the tow bar is only rated to 5,000 my GCVW must be under 15,500. and I was well above that with this engine already.

PS, the RV and cliffy have the same 14FF rear axle with 4.10 AR, and almost identical trans ratios (TH350/TH400).

Now onto the stopping allegations :D, I towed in that 2nd picture like that with 0 trailer brakes, i had no controller, i could not afford or borrow one, and i was being charged $15 per day that the RV sat in the lot, so i didnt have a choice. That being said. the brakes were more than capable to stop all of the 18,000lbs and in a hurry when need be. the only time i had an issue was when it was blizzarding for about 60 miles and the road was super slick.    The 1-ton brakes on the RV should be plenty capable of stopping a MAXIMUM 15,500, when my 3/4 brakes could easily stop 18,000.

and yes i have looked into the "surge" systems, the cheapest option i have available is $500 andit goes up, HOWEVER, there is a blueox product called autostop iirc, and it goes into the hitch/towbar and has a cable that is run to the brake pedal and pulls the pedal when the toad surges forward when the RV brakes.



For flat towing the driveshaft will be disconnected and either tied up or completely removed depending on how ambitious i feel at the time. I have read many many forums regarding towing with the 208 flat, and many many people say its a bad idea, others testify they have towed 208's flat for hundreds of miles.


there are abundant 100-300A alternators on ebay and green mean among others that can fit in any 10si, cs130,cs144 application and more, just a matter of how many hundreds you want to part with to reach your goal. i got a used one from the shop that was laying around and he didnt really know what it was worth.  how do you think people run 1000W-6000W subs in their cars and trucks without killing the engine?



Idling all the time, the engine will be turning 2400-2600rpm going down the interstate @55-60mph almost anytime this would be happening. however I think a modestly tuned V8 is still more efficient than a 2cyl or 4cyl generator under $500, even if just running up to 1200rpm to get the minimum A output needed. in addition to the solar 8-30A input during the day, and once the sun is gone the A/C doesnt have to run nearly as hard.



EDIT: this was a 560ish mile round trip about 270 miles each way plus in town pitstops and sightseeing
« Last Edit: March 06, 2016, 06:38:32 pm by MuddiGGEr25 »
1988 V10 Suburban 5.7L TBI/TH350 39K on rebuild 4.10AR GM14FF/GM10SF 235/85R16 & 18.4-16.1

1988 V20 Suburban 6.2L-J/TH400 CA truck, 125K G80 14FF/ GM10 4.10AR GVWR 8,600

1977 Ford Granada ~450HP 302 2bbl/C4 27K original 2.47 215/70R14