Multi port EFI 496

[jeremy.farlow]

I’m not sure which one I’m cheering for; end of virus quarantine or end of my virus project. I can’t call how much longer before I can go back to work, but I don’t see much more than 4-6 weeks before I should be driving my project around.

This post will be the beginning of the end.

I’ve got an 0.060” over block; decked and line-bored at the machine shop with this stuff:



Way nicer than I will likely ever need.
Eagle forged reciprocating assembly.
Forged crank, forged H-beam rods, forged pistons.

I’ve never built an engine this big... I’m excited to see how loud forged pistons are when they’re 4.310” in diameter, stroking four inches. Slap, slap, slap.

I can’t show pictures of the heads... because I don’t have them. Last contact from AFR says they’re on their mills and likely to ship a week from today.




The block will be done by then. And I’ve got this stuff ready to go:



Edelbrock pro-flo. Oval ports.

This stuff:



The Edelbrock kit has the 825 HP injectors, but I don’t expect anything close to that. The cam is a factory replacement grind... but it’s a roller cam. The rockers are chrome-moly... valve gear isn’t super trick. No titanium retainers or sodium-filled valves or beehive wound triple springs. The engine is going in a truck. It’s not gonna rev to 6500 revs.

My goal has always been efficiency... to the degree a big block Chevy can ever claim that. I’ll be happy if I can consistently get 11+mpg combined.

#lowexpectations



Jeremy

[Da67goatman]

I like it so far.  Keep us posted.

[jeremy.farlow]

Beyond the mechanics of building AN engine, I’m quickly reaching the extents of my preexisting knowledge. The Edelbrock system is ostensibly plug and play, but I’m starting to worry about how well it will play with the rest of the factory electronics.

I started with a bone stock, 1991 2500 Suburban. It came with the TBI 454 and a 4L80-e. I have the factory wiring and troubleshooting guide, courtesy of this forum. The one thing it won’t tell me is what happens if/when I completely remove the factory ECM from the equation.

The easiest solution seems to be a standalone transmission controller.

I guess I’m seeking either validation that a standalone tranny controller is the way to go. Or absolutely not...



Jeremy

[jeremy.farlow]

Still playing the waiting game. As I’m getting closer I knocked the dust off of the Edelbrock instructions. it’s as painless as the directions make it seem.


Updates to come as I’m able.




Jeremy

[Shifty]

Still watching your cool project! 

[jeremy.farlow]

I’ve noticed and I truly appreciate the encouragement. Overall I’m still SUPER grateful to have had something to occupy my time and keep me away from the news... the bad news... I’m HOPING that when we get to the other side of this virus thing I can look back and my only regret will be taking the month of February off work. I budgeted the money for this project pre-virus...

All the same, and all things equal, I’m still very much an instant gratification type of guy. And as I’m starting to think (too hard) about the money I’ve spent building my truck I really hate the money that is just... out there. At this point I’ve BOUGHT THREE sets of heads for this truck. I have only one set in hand.

To explain: I saw the writing on the wall the first week of March and pulled the trigger on a BIG order with Summit. Literally the most money I’ve EVER spent at one time on anything other than property. I did so because I knew if I waited any longer I wouldn’t do it. Because Summit is only 35 miles away I trusted their system and made some compromises with regard to what they (claimed they) had in stock. One of the compromises I made was to get Pro-Comp heads... as Summit claimed they were in stock and ready for pickup. I didn’t notice that the Pro-Comp heads were literally the only head offering priced and sold as a pair... so I ordered TWO... The goal was to run down to Summit in McDonough one time, get EVERYTHING I needed, and weather the storm.

For those getting bored with my verbosity:

I WILL NOT EVER SPEND ANOTHER DIME AT SUMMIT RACING!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

Here’s why:
As I said, I made several selections based on availability. I built an order to build an engine, with nearly everything but the block... reciprocating assembly... heads... cam et al. intake, oil pump... everything I could think of I would need to build a healthy motor. I chose the options listed as in stock and available. Made the order on Monday and made plans to pick it up Wednesday.

Midday Wednesday I called Summit, gave them my order number and requested they start pulling the order. I was told they would not pull a part until I showed up in person, with ID and my order particulars. First Strike! I can understand fraud prevention and ultimately I’m glad they err on safety’s side, but I wasn’t asking them to release my order, just to start pulling it.

So I hopped in the girlfriends truck, as my truck is in the shop and it was WAY too much for my car. I get to Summit... jump through their hoops to prove me to be myself... and start what ended up being a 3-hour wait. Twenty people had come and gone by the time my name got called... and the woman rolls out a cart with MAYBE 30% of my order. Strike 2 2/3!!!

Again, I like instant gratification. It’s a hallmark of us millennials. Difference between me and the hipster set is I’m more than willing to put in the work to get that gratification.

I’m not sure the parts counter girl even finished her sentence before I demanded the manager. So I sat down and waited again. Finally a manager, who had been watching me for 2 1/2 of the 3 hours I’d been there comes up to me. Loud enough for the parts counter personnel to hear I started: “I am an EXTREMELY UNHAPPY customer... your people all did their jobs admirably and my quarrel isn’t with any of them, or with you, but your system. The SUMMIT system, is BROKEN!!!”

I explained the reasons I was so unhappy...
I’ve been waiting... for not only an unacceptably incomplete order, but the CORE COMPONENTS aren’t here. What good does a great EFI intake do me when I don’t have a crank or pistons?
Why does your system tell me these items are in stock when they aren’t?

I do my best to be as reasonable as I can and to understand and empathize as the situation warrants. No amount of lambasting the manager would produce my parts, so I compromised again:
“I’m NOT driving back down here! That’s step one... and I’m not paying you to ship items you said I could pick up in person...”

“I understand sir, let me see what I can do...”

So I waited some more. After another half hour he comes back with a new manifest for me, a stack of toilet paper, ie Summit bucks and explains that the rest of my order will be shipped to me... all direct from the manufacturer.

“I see, so not only does Summit not have these parts at this location, they’re not even in Summit’s inventory?!?”

“It appears that way... sir!”

Yeah... every “big ticket” item had to ship direct from the manufacturer. And that’s understandable... I don’t expect Summit to stock EVERYTHING... I do expect them to stock the things they SAY they do.

At this point I’m still waiting on one set of Pro-Comp heads to... I’m not even sure... I don’t want them, and just by looking at them can’t recommend them to anyone else, surely not for the price I have in them. In any case, having them in hand would make me feel a little better than I currently do.

As I said above, I’ll never spend another dollar at Summit Racing... I WILL get my money back and fully expect to use whatever credit I wind up with to get all the small stuff I know I’ve forgotten. And I’ve still got that stack of Summit bucks.

Since I’d budgeted @ $2500 for heads, which will buy two sets of the Pro-Comp GARBAGE, I floated myself until I can make the return to Summit and called AFR up. They haven’t been the BEST, but at least their products reputation stands up. And the machine shop has their deposit and isn’t hounding me to pick the bottom end up, so I won’t direct my ire at AFR IF my heads show up by the end of next week.

They’ve had ample time. They could have smelted the ore AND cast the things themselves in the time since I placed the order. I’m OVER the virus, and I want to DRIVE my truck. Until then I can’t help but second guess the money and time I’ve been spending. Hearing that others are into it surely helps.




Jeremy

[Shifty]

That sucks Jeremy, Summit has always been really solid for me. 

[jeremy.farlow]

I’ve never had trouble before either. But as I told the last Summit customer service rep I spoke to: “I believe there’s a systemic problem here at Summit. You have to understand that the writing on the wall, economically speaking, looks bad for ALL of us. Your company is the literal definition of luxury products. There’s nothing in your catalogue a person can eat. If you plan to weather this storm a good place to start is by NOT pissing off customers.”

I have to reiterate... I’m not upset about a part not being in stock, that’s understandable. I’m upset at what appears to be the conscious, deceitful business practice of telling the customer parts are in stock when they aren’t. THAT indicates either ineptitude, or deceit. And from what I’ve gathered trying to clear this mess up, it seems the Summit system is designed to be intentionally deceitful and then intentionally obtuse... likely with the aim of frustrating a percentage of customers until they just give up.

I’ve got too much money in play to just give up... and too much time on my hands as well.

Lastly: public service announcement.
DO NOT WASTE YOUR MONEY ON PRO-COMP CYLINDER HEADS

They are CHEAP JUNK. I’ve read some people that feel their bare casting are an acceptable starting point. Even that is a big maybe in my mind.

First off... the stud mounts come from the factory with helicoils in them. Hackery at its finest there. I totally understand using a threaded insert for a higher strength thread in aluminum. Keencert, Timecert, anything is better than a helicoil. Pro-Comp doesn’t even recommend stud mounting the rockers and won’t warrant their product unless you use shaft mounted rockers. Guessing they’ve dealt with a few failures...

After that I set the first head on its side and poured acetone down the exhaust port... first valve leaked immediately. Two others showed traces of leaks after minutes. Flipped it and tried the intakes. Two leaky valves there. I didn’t even bother the second head. I bought assembled heads because I don’t have the tools or equipment to cut or even measure valve seats. Maybe I could have lapped the valves to the seats and gotten a better seal?!? But should I have to?

Absolutely no markings whatsoever on valve or retainer. Not a stretch to imagine they’re the absolute cheapest valves, springs, retainers, etc. Likely just waiting to for a valve head to pop off and hole a piston.

Again, that part is my fault. I didn’t do my diligence and I expect to pay a penalty for that. But that penalty will NOT be eating the cost of two sets of crap heads. One set that I don’t even have in hand.


I’ll stay off my soapbox after this.





Jeremy

[ehjorten]

Jeremy;

My 1991 V3500 had the TBI454 and 4L80e.  Truck has 8" of lift, 4.10s, & 35" tall tires.  I got 11 MPG pretty steady out of her.  When I spun a bearing in the engine, I pulled it out and put a 2004 6.0 l LQ4 in it.  I have been dinking around with stuff for far too long, but I am finally getting to the last little bits to get her back on the road.  Anyways...I did get 11 MPG out of my original, low-compression 454 with horrible peanut port heads.

[jeremy.farlow]

Still lacking heads, but I picked up the short block today.

I’ve got most of the bits to start assembling the engine and hopefully I’ll see heads this week...


Obviously still a lot of work left to do, but getting the block in hand feels like an accomplishment, so I’m trying to take some “basking” time...


Everyone stay safe and healthy out there.





Jeremy

[jeremy.farlow]

First pitfall... hopefully of not too many.
This is the timing set I got:


Clearly labeled Big Chevy.
But!!!...

No way, no how.
As I’m not nearly as versed as many... what gives. The cam is a Melling GenVI replacement roller... I’m thinking that MAY be the difference. I have noticed that most timing sets are different for factory roller applications. Is that the case here? Mostly hoping to avoid buying four more timing sets to get the right one.



Jeremy

[bd]

Factory roller blocks use a thrust plate to locate the camshaft in the block and prevent it from walking fore and aft.  The configuration of the thrust plate reduces the diameter of the cam gear bolt circle.  Did you retrofit a thrust plate to the block? 

[jeremy.farlow]

Update on above... factory roller cams got a different snout. Got a new timing set on the way.

Summit update. I called them again yesterday. I was informed that the second set of heads was damaged in transit. Okay... why did it take ME calling THEM to get that information??? So I requested a refund again. Sure thing sir... right away. 24 hours later I’m still not refunded.
No idea WHEN the damaged heads actually shipped, or when Summit was alerted to their damage, but it’s been at least a month. Long enough they’re getting interest on the $1362.12 that hasn’t been refunded to me. That money is for parts that Summit acknowledges I never received.
So... I started my day with both a BBB complaint against Summit and escalated my claim for refund through PayPal. Even without the financial insecurities driven by the pandemic, this is REAL MONEY!!! Do they honestly believe I’m just going to forget? That I’ll just go away and leave them $1362.12 richer?!? Actually that number doesn’t include the other stuff I’ll be returning today.
Summit obviously doesn’t realize who they’re dealing with. Tenacity, thy name is Jeremy.
So now I’m loading up my car with the OTHER set of heads, the timing set and whatever else I can return and I’m planning on parking myself in their showroom until the gendarme drag me out or this is resolved.

Summit will never get another cent from me and I’ll recommend all reading use their purchasing power likewise. Support your local economy, not the powerhouse. Try Jegs, try Barnett Performance, start a relationship with your local NAPA. At the very least, do not assume Summit will be anything but duplicitous and intentionally deceitful in any dealings you have with them.

I hope I’ll have a better update later today, wish me luck.




Jeremy

[JohnnyPopper]

I feel the same about RockAuto!

When you're compiling a list of parts, they somehow seem to ship from different sites, though the parts are similar.

Add to that, when you try to get parts from the same site, parts you have already put in your cart magically change to shipping from different sites!!

I have cancelled many orders due to this rigged system of playing with shipping costs.

[jeremy.farlow]

RockAuto doesn’t bother me as much. Despite doing 90% of my ordering from my phone and using RockAutos non-mobile optimized system, they basically let me choose speedy delivery or cheap delivery. And having to choose one of those options was made clear to me since I started using that outlet.
The thing with Summit that really caught in my craw was that I built this order based around what THEY said they had IN STOCK at my retail location. Their system allows the order to be built that way. So the start of this miserable journey was buying parts they claimed were in hand, driving the 35 miles and WAITING... to discover those parts weren’t even in the Summit inventory. I understand they can’t stock EVERYTHING! Cool, don’t even make the attempt. But expect an unhappy customer when the parts you said were on hand and in inventory have to be shipped from the manufacturer.


In any case... after an in person visit I have several pieces of paper that indicate I am being refunded for the items that never arrived. I also walked out with the GenVI style thrust plate and proper timing set. AFR says the heads are at shipping/receiving so hopefully I’ll be able to get this engine together before some piece of grinding grit finds itself inside the engine. My shop is not the best equipped for that sort of work.



Stay safe and healthy out there.



Jeremy