Door skin patch panel

[RIGEROUS]

  Need suggestion for installing 5 inch tall outer door skin patch on a 1986 c10. I have made three attempts at very carefully fitting, tack welding, then stich welding, then finishe seem welding the after market patch panel. Each time the weld stresses pull a huge dent in the door skin. Does anyone where to buy outer door bottom patch panels that actually match the contor of the door and fit well around the fold over bottom seams ? Can anyone offer suggestions on the fit tack and weld process ? I am starting to think about using panel adhesive, any guidance on that process would be much appreciated.

Thank You, Rigerous

[autorepr]

You say seem weld it? Anything other than the smallest of tack will warp it. I hate to say it but,,,,throw the door in the trash and go buy a rust free or replacement door. The surface of the door is to large of a flat area to weld and it not warp. I guess if you can find another panel large enough to cut out what you've put in plus the warped area you could tack it every 6 inches across the door, let it cool completely, tack it every 6"s again and let it cool completely, then tack it 1 more time every 6 "s and let it cool, then fill it initially with Duraglass or someting strong, then reg. body filler. You want it cool enough you can touch the area around the weld with your bare hand. (sort of) Good luck.

[Blazin]

You need to tack it every 5 or 6 inches then go back over it until its a full weld letting it cool in between. A heat sink made of copper or brass behind the welds will also help allot. Once it is welded you have to hammer and dolly the hem all the way across the bottom and up both sides. You are leaving the face long to make the end hems right?

[Dragon]

If you have QuickTime or Windows Media Viewer I would suggest you(or anyone else interested) check out these Videos
These apply to any Professional Grade Products Out There, so they are Specific to just this Product line...
http://www.evercoat.com/training.aspx
Please Note, These Are Professional Training Videos that Give Professional Tips, So Please Respect Rules or Any Copy Rights In Place, as it would be ashame to lose them due to miss use!

[RIGEROUS]

Thanks for the comments guys. Nice videos Dragon, I may end up going that route but not giving up on welding yet.
The Asian manufactured patch panel I have comes with the edges pre bent to 90 degrees. Problem is they are very tight, possibly a little to short compared to the door flange after that section of the skin is removed. I have been very careful about spacing each stitch and cooling between each stitch. I get about 50 - 85% of the seem done by stitching and then it pulls a big dent in. When I grind the weld out the remaining door skin returns perfectly to its original shape. I tried "forming" the patch panel to more closely match the actual door skin shape but it did not help. I think the problem may be that the patch panel is basically flat sheet metal that I am trying to join with the original door skin which is slightly curved both front to back and up and down. With the 90 degree bends along the edges of the panel fitting tight to the door frame the ends are essentially constrained. If this is the problem when I weld the slightly longer cord length of the original door skin to the slightly shorter straight section of the new panel the door skin conforms by flattening the bow out of the door skin when the welds cool. That is todays theory anyway, what do you think Blazin ??

[RIGEROUS]

I meant to say, joining the slightly longer arc of the door skin to the slightly shorter "chord" length of the patch panel. sorry for the confusion

[Blazin]

I think I know exactly what is happening to you! I have been there and done that. Its a matter of rounding the patch to match the door shape, and lot of practice etc.

[Dragon]

I think I know exactly what is happening to you! I have been there and done that. Its a matter of rounding the patch to match the door shape, and lot of practice etc.

Blazin's correct, the Factory Doorskin has a Crown to it, where as the new replacement patch piece is either flat, or has a slight Crown, but still isn't enough to match the Factory Shape...  Basically when you are welding in the patch panel to the Factory Skin, your are slightly Flattening the Factory Piece to contour to the Aftermarket, thus causing a concave/dent between the matched panels...   

Here's an Old School Tip to get the Aftermarket Piece to Crown a bit more like the Factory Piece, when you don't have the expensive tools, or knowledge to do it more professionally(Ofcourse I was taught this trick by my Auto Collision Instructor, who looked alot like Mr Miyagi from the Karate Kid Movies(Yes he was Japanese American, and he was Affectionately Referred to as Sensei, for his teaching and discipline styles!) )... Sit on the Floor, and use the upper portion of one of your legs as a table for the panel. With either the top/bottom portion of the panel facing your stomach(Not near it, and use caution, as it is Sharp!), and the other end facing you foot, very slightly roll/rock the panel side to side on your leg, while gently pushing each side towards the ground.
Remember to place the panel back on the door after the slightest adjustment on your leg, to check the panels contour to the factory piece..
  Repeat re contouring and rechecking the panel fit, if it still doesn't match the Factory piece enough... 

Don't Forget the proper Safety Equipment or Use Caution when attempting to Contour the Patch Panel, Take Your Time, And Constantly Check the Panel Fit & Shape before attempting to weld the piece in place!!

[Blazin]

I do a similar trick but use the 45 degree edge of a wooden bench top, tweak it a bit then slide it a touch, tweak it, slide it, tweak it, etc. etc.

[RIGEROUS]

Well I cut the last patch panel effort off, the remaining door skin and door frame in the patch panel area are still in excellent shape. I get another crack at this as soon as a new patch panel come in from mail order. Do you think It is reasonable to expect to seam weld the patch on ?? Would I be better off stopping once I have it well stitched or will the body filler crack from the door flexing ?

[ccz145a]

if you have holes left after the process, use the kitty-hair filler, the kind with fiberglass. regular filler will crack in this application.

[RIGEROUS]

There will be no holes left. I plan to slide the patch panel up behind the remaining door skin so there is a lap joint. If I only stitch weld rather than seal weld it I am concerned that any water etc that runs down inside the door skin will collect on the inside ledge created by the lap joint. The "Kitty Hair" filler sounds like great advice. Do you think a strip of fibergalss resin with glass fibers in it would be even stronger / better ?

[ccz145a]

Do you think a strip of fibergalss resin with glass fibers in it would be even stronger / better ?

more chance of keeping moisture out that way, sounds good to me.

[Blazin]

I would make sure its a complete welded seem. as for the inside I would coat it with short strand fiberglass filler.

[Dragon]

Personally on something like this, I prefer to use a Metal Infused Filler....  Basically it is like you are using Lead to make the repairs, but it isn't as Toxic, it is Rust and Waterproof, along with being easy to work with(Easily shaped, and can be drilled like actual sheetmetal without cracking like fiberglass(So long as it is mixed properly, along with the surface prepped correctly)....

USC's All-Metal is my Favorite(It is infused with Aluminum)!

http://www.amazon.com/ALL-METAL-Premium-Aluminum-Filled-Filler/dp/B00063X684