Can I back-half my truck myself or does it need to be done by a pro?

[team39763]

I saw the 4link thread, but I didn't want to hijack.  I decided that I would like to work on getting the truck to hook as best we can, so we're getting serious about the suspension.  I'm looking into a ladder bar setup and ditching the leafsprings.  I seen that Comp Engineering had a pre-fabbed rear frame with a ladder bar setup included.  But I'm not sure if that's what I even need.  Do I?  I think the longest bars they have are only 31", isn't that too short for a nose heavy truck?  And lets say that I did buy this frame kit, could I just take it to my exhaust guy and have him to weld it in?  Any special tools or actions needed(frame jig or anything)? 
  I also looked into just buying the ladder bar setup by itself and adding it to my existing frame.  There won't be a bed floor, so I'll have as much space as I'll need for stuff sticking above the stock frame level.  How hard would it be to throw the ladder bar kit on there?  I'm worried about it not being 100% straight/aligned.  Should I be or is it easy to get it right.  We don't have any suspension places for about 100miles or more so I was hoping my exhaust guy could do it.
  Any tips or things to look for when buying a ladder bar setup? ***This is not a street driven truck, only raced at the track and legal street events***

[HAULIN IT]

Team, You are really the One that can answer if you can install the ladder bar set-up, without knowing your knowledge/tool availability that's tough for someone else to say. Can it be done in a garage on jackstands...absolutely!
 I'll offer my Two cents...How fast are you hoping to go? I don't see the need to cut the truck in half to run the times I'm guessing your planning to run. There are lots of guys running 8's & 9's on leaf springs & Cal-Tracs. Because of the poor weight bias we typically are working with on our trucks, a little more tire can be helpful, but once you leave the starting line, the extra tire is just more baggage & sapping power.
 For a little more than a set of good coil overs, you could have a set of Cal-Tracs & Good Rancho shocks that you could install in your driveway in a weekend that would be plenty good for 1.50 or so 60's & you would still have room for 12" of tire. 
 If your dead set on losing the leaf springs, Why not just put a bar across for the front & One for the upper shock mount, maybe a notch in the frame if you want it a little lower? With the leaves out of the way you could put 18" wide tires on there without cutting the frame up.
 For comparative perposes, my wife turned a couple 1.65 60's this past weekend with my cobbled together set-up & the used S-10 torque converter on 28"x11" ET Street radials. Having a ladder bar or 4 link set-up may have helped lower that a little more, but I bet a good converter would show a much bigger improvement for much less time & money, See where I'm coming from?
 Here's a photo of my brother's Mustang....The relevance is that is very front heavy like our trucks (iron headed 460/C-6 w/ A/C, ect. 3680 lbs.) the weight bias is like 62/38, it runs high 10's-low11's on 26x9.5 ET Streets with a stock front suspension (w/heavier springs to hold up the weight) & bolt-on home made rear arms. It 60's about the same as my truck.
 My suggestion is... Make the horsepower & get it to the rear wheels, then see what you need to make it hook up. A good set of 28x10 or so slicks should be all you need. Lorne

 


   

[team39763]

I think you're right Lorne.  I keep over-thinking my setup and trying to cover bases that I don't even have to worry about.  I'm really really set on running an 11.5 on motor and spray my way into a high 10.  I didn't have traction issues the last time I went, but the truck didn't take off good.  I think a 14sec Honda 60'd the same as me.  But I've got a lot of things done since then.  I believe I have about 400rwhp and my race weight will be around 3550 with me in it.   
  I'm planning on a 4800-5000rpm converter soon.  I want to hit the back tires hard.  Should I look into a custom made driveshaft or will the stock one hold up(after being hi-speed balanced)?    I'm gonna call Calvert about some split mono leafs and Rancho shocks.  If I end up going with the Cal-tracs, I'll buy them from you CaptKaos. 
 

[HAULIN IT]

Team, Check with Chris about the springs & shocks also, he is a distributor so he can get you anything they sell....I didn't know this when I bought my shocks Maybe call Travis @ Calvert for technical advise on poundage/application ect.
Lorne

[Captkaos]

If you want something from Calvert, let me know.  I can possibly get it to you cheaper.  Ask Travis for the info and then relay it o me and I can order it for you.

I think you should be able to get into the 11's with a leaf setup.  If you aren't having traction problems now with 400hp, I would wait on the traction bars until you can't plant them.

[team39763]

It looks like cal-tracs and split monos are going to be my choice.  I just need to figure out if I want a flipkit or not.  I have to do some research to see what my options are for lowering the front though.  I'll be running narrowed factory wheels[15X6.5 narrowed to 15X4.5] up front and I don't know how that will work out with drop spindles.  I'll go ahead and see how the truck runs before buying caltracs and report back.  It'll probably be a few weeks before I get to the track since I'm waiting on some other parts.
 

[eventhorizon66]

Team: We are still talking about a fairly stock carb'd LQ9 motor, right?  Wouldn't 4800-5000 stall just bypass the meat of torque curve?  How about some head work, compression, and cam before going to that much stall?  Maybe I missed the post where you discussed building up the engine.

[HAULIN IT]

Team, Do you have the front of the spring clamped? For the most part, I had good results just doing that, went 1.71 60's. A couple times on not so great prepped track, it would go into spring wrap, which prompted the latest set-up. This photo is with only the spring clamped. I had done the axle, hanger/shackle flip, but didn't have the traction bars installed yet. Lorne

[JJSZABO]

Man Lorne - I love seeing that Olds symbol right out front!!

That is one awesome truck

[team39763]

Yeah, it's still that mild LQ4 for now.  The motor work is going to come later because I'm still learning how to tune and stuff.  I'd rather blow up a mild junkyard motor than mess up an expensive setup.  I believe 4500+ converters are what the fast F-body guys are using(cam only).  When I have more cam, I'm sure it'll work out pretty good, especially with this intake setup. 
  When I went to the good track, I had the back of the springs clamped and the "truck" specific Lakewood traction bars.  But the truck took off like crap - 2.1 60ft with no wheelspin.  So it really hasn't been pushed yet.  But at the crappy track, I can break the tires loose all day.  Most of my races will be on crappy pavement, so I need lots of hook.
  I'm gonna do my best to get the truck track worthy and get some video soon.

**EDIT** I just wanted to add that I'm trying to hang with some pretty stout rides.  One is that Silverado that my "friend" had with the 530hp 406 the other is a 80's Camaro with a fully built 468 w/175shot and suspension work, another is a El Camino with a 496 w/200shot.  I know I can't win on straight HP, so I need to be lighter and faster off the line.

[eventhorizon66]

Keep in mind the LS1 F-body guys are running one point more compression than you, so they can run a larger cam than you before their performance gains fall off.  Run too large a cam (ie: one that runs best with 4500 stall) and you will have poor performance with 9.5:1 CR.  Anyways keep us posted on the progress.  You've got big goals trying to hang with cars like a sprayed big block 3rd gen.  As far as the Silverado goes, he's fair game, lugging around quite a bit more weight than you.

[HAULIN IT]

Team, Don't clamp the back, the front (a few inches behind the eye) is what bows up & then down...resulting in wheelhop. The back needs to be able to "work", be the spring. Have you seen any fast Mopars (say mid 10's or faster) running the "Super Stock" springs? These are extreme & easy to watch what's going on. With a  2.10 60' no wheelspin, you need to figure out what is going on there....Ladder bars &/or bigger tires aren't going to help your cause! Lorne

[team39763]

Me and the Silverado would be a good race if he has traction issues.  I already have the BBC Camaro beat on motor atleast...I ran 12.8, he ran 13.1.  The El Camino got beat by the Camaro due to traction issues, so I'd say I have a pretty good chance against all of them.  I just want to have my truck at the top of it's game for when these guys do get their rides to run like they should. 
  I plan to have the compression upped when I swap the cam.  I'm either going to mill these heads or buy some LS6 heads to mill. 

*I meant 70's Camaro, I don't know why I was thinkin' 80's.

[team39763]

I think I got that 60ft problem fixed.  I had crap for a timing curve, too much carb aswell as not tuned one bit.  It would sputter off the line or just take off really sluggish until it hit higher RPMS.  I couldn't even do a burnout.  I don't have that problem now, I can sit there an roast the tires in place with no brakes.  I'm running my original 750DP and I'm learning more and more about tuning everyday. 
   That makes sense about the spring clamp being in front.  It looks like the caltracs would definately cure the wheel hop.  I now have clamps on the front now about in the middle of the springs along holding the spring to the traction bars...maybe I'll try moving them forward.  I'll go have a look at some of those super stock springs.