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73-87 Chevy _ GMC Trucks => Projects Posts (NOT VEHICLES) => Topic started by: 123 pugsy on May 29, 2007, 05:03:16 am

Title: TPI onto 86 Block
Post by: 123 pugsy on May 29, 2007, 05:03:16 am
I have an 86 350 4 bolt with World Products S/R heads in my truck now as I chewed out the thrust bearing in the 283. Can I use the TPI unit I have on this? I'm not sure of the location of the knock sensor.Does it go in the block or the cylinder head? I know I have to drill out the 2 center intake holes on a different angle.I've ordered an oil pressure switch with the disconnect for the fuel pump. I will weld in a bung for the o2 sensor on to the crossover pipe just behind the connection to exhaust manifold.

Any other things to consider before I start?

Title: Re: TPI onto 86 Block
Post by: VileZambonie on May 29, 2007, 01:19:10 pm
The knock sensor goes in the cylinder block where you probably have a plug now in the coolant jacket adjacent to the cylinder walls. So you have the ECM, the ignition system and harness too right? Don't forget with TPI you want an in tank fuel pump also that can sustain 47PSI.
Title: Re: TPI onto 86 Block
Post by: 123 pugsy on May 29, 2007, 02:17:13 pm
I have have a threaded plug in 2 sides of the lower block.I use either of theses holes?I have a full wiring harness,distributor,PCM.There is a 2 pin hookup on the distributor I'm not sure of. I haven't found a wire that fits in there yet. I have the steering column and key and I made up a bypass resistor for the VATS. The key resistor measured 1129 OHMS and I made 1 up from 2 resistors in series equalling 1144 OHMS. I read on a website that I should be +/- 5%. I was thinking about getting an in line electric fuel pump. Any thoughts on this?
Title: Re: TPI onto 86 Block
Post by: VileZambonie on May 29, 2007, 03:03:48 pm
you can use either hole but I believe the harness is set up for the pass side. Do you have the pigtail that goes to the ignition coil from the module? As far as the VATS resistor you can pick up resistors so cheap you'd be better off matching the chip and then just wiring it in. Make two one as a spare in case one ever fails.

As far as the fuel pump being in the tank- several reasons for this. When you draw fuel from the tank rather than push fuel from the tank it can create low pressure which decresases the vaporiztion point of the fuel which could easily result in vapor lock - especially in warmer weather. Consistant temperatures are more easily maintained within the tank and noise is drastically reduced. You can get a Camaro pump and plop it in an 87 sending unit no problem. 
Title: Re: TPI onto 86 Block
Post by: 123 pugsy on May 30, 2007, 12:14:54 pm
I like the idea of having less fuel pump noise for sure. Not having to worry about vapor lock is definitely a bonus. The 2 parts combined add up to the price of an in line pump ( $20.00 more) ,so why not?
I've already made a VATS bypass and I do have 1 extra.
About the distributor and coil pigtails: I can't find a 2 pin pigtail that fits the distributor or a 4 pin that fits the coil???? :-\  ???
Also:What's the module?
Sorry if I sound a little hi tech illiterate,but that's just because I am.....but I gotta learn this stuff sooner than later.I want to use all the fuel injection technology on my future projects to have a nice clean burning engine. ;D
Title: Re: TPI onto 86 Block
Post by: VileZambonie on May 30, 2007, 04:07:15 pm
There is a pigtail that comes off of your ignition module. The module is in your distributor. There's a small harness that connects to the ignition coil from the module. If you don't have one you can rob one at a junk yard without any special tools. Don't worry about your questions -ask away.
Title: Re: TPI onto 86 Block
Post by: 123 pugsy on May 30, 2007, 08:10:13 pm
     I found half the pigtail for the coil in the wiring harness.Its a pink from the key and a white. I also found a pigtail for the module in my junk box. So I just need 1 more pigtail at the coil to connect to the module.I'll go to the wreckers for one.
     How about the EGR? If I have a block off plate where the EGR sits,what kind of trouble will this cause? I'm thinking it will throw a code? Is there a way to bypass this so I wouldn't need a custom chip?
Title: Re: TPI onto 86 Block
Post by: VileZambonie on May 31, 2007, 05:22:37 am
Just hook up the EGR. If you want it off simply unplug it. Otherwise leave it - It's not a bad thing.
Title: Re: TPI onto 86 Block
Post by: 123 pugsy on May 31, 2007, 05:31:52 am
I just don't have it. I don't want to buy one if I don't have to.
Title: Re: TPI onto 86 Block
Post by: 123 pugsy on May 31, 2007, 06:37:30 am
Will the 87 sending unit fit into my 76 20 gallon tank?
Title: Re: TPI onto 86 Block
Post by: Captkaos on May 31, 2007, 12:58:08 pm
Will the 87 sending unit fit into my 76 20 gallon tank?

yes it will physically fit.  The 73-86 tanks don't have the baffles in them like the 87 tanks do.  So if you have a lot of sloshing it could cause fuel delivery problem.  I know S&P put them in stock tanks all the time (or at least they told me they did).
Title: Re: TPI onto 86 Block
Post by: VileZambonie on May 31, 2007, 03:16:06 pm
You don't have just the EGR valve or the whole set up with the solenoid?
Title: Re: TPI onto 86 Block
Post by: 123 pugsy on May 31, 2007, 08:25:13 pm
[[/quote]

yes it will physically fit.  The 73-86 tanks don't have the baffles in them like the 87 tanks do.  So if you have a lot of sloshing it could cause fuel delivery problem.  I know S&P put them in stock tanks all the time (or at least they told me they did).

[/quote]

Thanks Chris. So if I keep it filled up,it should be fine I take it.
Title: Re: TPI onto 86 Block
Post by: 123 pugsy on May 31, 2007, 08:34:06 pm
You don't have just the EGR valve or the whole set up with the solenoid?

I have the solenoid but it looks pretty beat up.The plastic coating from the coil is busted off and the pigtail is half broken inside.
Title: Re: TPI onto 86 Block
Post by: VileZambonie on May 31, 2007, 10:45:58 pm
Well it will still run the same without it- It will just cause SES light to come on if you even hook it up
Title: Re: TPI onto 86 Block
Post by: 123 pugsy on June 01, 2007, 05:27:11 am
I think I may have a choke light I can use for SES light.I will definitely hook that up somehow.
I have a photo below. Can someone identify this lump of ??????

Title: Re: TPI onto 86 Block
Post by: VileZambonie on June 01, 2007, 03:29:02 pm
Secondary A.I.R. diverter. Don't bother with the A.I.R. system
Title: TPI Install
Post by: 123 pugsy on July 09, 2007, 08:27:52 pm
Got the TPI mocked up on the old 283 block. I mounted a coffee can where I will be cutting a hole in the floor to bring in the computer wires.

(http://i45.photobucket.com/albums/f81/123pugsy/DSC03453.jpg)

(http://i45.photobucket.com/albums/f81/123pugsy/DSC03451.jpg)

(http://i45.photobucket.com/albums/f81/123pugsy/DSC03474.jpg)
Title: Re: TPI Install
Post by: Novadiecast on July 10, 2007, 12:18:24 pm
Nice to see you got a knowledgable helper there to keep you on the right track!!!!!!!!
Title: Re: TPI Install
Post by: 123 pugsy on July 10, 2007, 02:59:30 pm
Her Mom told me she's not allowed to help. :-\ I gotta wait for the son to be born in October. ;D
Title: Re: TPI onto 86 Block
Post by: 123 pugsy on July 10, 2007, 04:37:33 pm
Next question: I have an old pigtail I want to use but the colors are wrong.Does any one know where the pink wire from the coil  should go? To the yellow on the right or to the black on the left???

(http://i45.photobucket.com/albums/f81/123pugsy/DSC03485.jpg)

Thanks
Title: Re: TPI Install
Post by: 123 pugsy on July 11, 2007, 05:30:41 am
Got the computer mounted behind the glove box. I made an aluminum plate and screwed it to the plastic heater box. I cut out a hole in the passenger side floor as high up as I could get and checked the fit. The wires were just long enough. ;)


(http://i45.photobucket.com/albums/f81/123pugsy/DSC03459.jpg)

(http://i45.photobucket.com/albums/f81/123pugsy/DSC03457.jpg)
Title: Re: TPI onto 86 Block
Post by: VileZambonie on July 11, 2007, 02:42:59 pm
what year is your harness?
Title: Re: TPI onto 86 Block
Post by: 123 pugsy on July 11, 2007, 08:00:23 pm
1992. I've got the wiring diagram but I'm not sure about how to figure out which should be pink and which should be white.
Title: Re: TPI onto 86 Block
Post by: VileZambonie on July 11, 2007, 08:27:28 pm
You've got two connectors . One has 2 pins and the other has four pins correct?

Small connector Cavity A is white Tach Signal
Cavity B is pink. B goes to the ignition switch B+

The 4 pin connector goes to the ECM and is
A BLACK/RED                     D9 @ECM
B TAN OR TAN/BLACK          C7 @ECM
C PURPLE/WHITE                D8 @ECM
D WHITE                           C8 @ECM
Title: Re: TPI onto 86 Block
Post by: 123 pugsy on July 11, 2007, 08:53:11 pm
Thanks Vile. Yes I have a 2 and 4 pin connector. The 4 pin connector I have no issues with. I was missing the complete 2 pin harness. I could only find the coil end to buy as replacement and I found an end to fit the module in my parts stock.Only still one problem. If you look at the photo above where the pigtail goes into the module, I checked and there are no letters on the module. Should I assume "A" would be on the left and hookup the white to the black and "B" would be on the right and hookup the pink to the yellow?

EDIT: I found this drwg. It appears that the pink would go on the left and white would go on the right.

(http://i45.photobucket.com/albums/f81/123pugsy/img37.gif)
Title: Re: TPI onto 86 Block
Post by: VileZambonie on July 12, 2007, 08:08:27 am
Here's a connector view for you:
(http://i6.photobucket.com/albums/y228/Sabaka454/dist.gif)
(http://i6.photobucket.com/albums/y228/Sabaka454/coil.gif)
Title: Re: TPI onto 86 Block
Post by: 123 pugsy on July 12, 2007, 09:04:59 am
Excellent drawing. Thankyou.
Title: Re: TPI onto 86 Block
Post by: 123 pugsy on July 12, 2007, 08:35:22 pm
Anyone see a problem with using brass compression fittings for the fuel in and return? Seems like an easy way to fix the lines that were cut when I got the TPI unit. I have high pressure line and clamps and will be using only short pieces as needed.

I read somewhere that the 5/16 return line can use regular fuel line. Thoughts?

(http://i45.photobucket.com/albums/f81/123pugsy/DSC03486.jpg)
Title: Re: TPI onto 86 Block
Post by: 123 pugsy on July 12, 2007, 08:43:51 pm
Got the wiring for the coil and distributor done.

(http://i45.photobucket.com/albums/f81/123pugsy/DSC03489.jpg)


Made up a couple of mirror stainless steel covers this morning at work for the coil and MAP sensor and got them screwed on.

(http://i45.photobucket.com/albums/f81/123pugsy/DSC03491.jpg)

Title: Re: TPI onto 86 Block
Post by: Captkaos on July 13, 2007, 12:13:17 am
I read somewhere that the 5/16 return line can use regular fuel line. Thoughts?
Never heard that, and I wouldn't recommend it.
As for the fittings, I personally would get a new fuel supply assembly.  I am going to get rid of my front supply line and get the Corvette version that enters at the back.
Title: Re: TPI onto 86 Block
Post by: 123 pugsy on July 13, 2007, 09:26:15 am
I believe the reason  someone wrote that was because the fuel just pours back into the tank and the high pressure is gone by this time. I will however use high pressure line as I will be using all steel except for short joiner pieces.

Anyone know how to put that "flare" ,bulge??,at the end of the line so the hose can get some grip?
I have a double flaring tool. Can something be done with this?
Title: Re: TPI onto 86 Block
Post by: VileZambonie on July 13, 2007, 01:35:33 pm
I have a fuel line repair kit that cost me about $250 bucks and I can make just about any fuel line repair to any oem line.

A really simple cheap option for you would be a 3/8 and a 5/16 fuel line repair kit like this

http://www.shop.com/op/~Dorman_Steel_Fuel_Line_Repair_Kit_3_8_X_30_-prod-17013216-23915462?sourceid=298
Title: Re: TPI onto 86 Block
Post by: 123 pugsy on July 13, 2007, 07:52:16 pm
I've got those repair kits for where I will hook up the fuel filter to the existing fuel line. I figured out a way to flare the line with a homemade tool.I decided to stick with the compression fittings.I changed the straight return fitting for a 90 degree. I cut back the 3/8 inlet line and got the straight fitting more recessed under the plenum.

(http://i45.photobucket.com/albums/f81/123pugsy/DSC03500.jpg)
Title: Re: TPI onto 86 Block
Post by: VileZambonie on July 14, 2007, 09:46:55 am
I think you should just take one of those lines and bend it so it screw directly into the rail. The iso flare with the oring is made to fit directly into the fuel rail. With the brass you have no oring seal and a few potential leaks.
Title: Re: TPI onto 86 Block
Post by: 123 pugsy on July 14, 2007, 03:03:15 pm
The 2 lines from the fuel rails were cut when I got them.  :P I have pretty good faith in compression fittings as I've used them alot in plumbing applications.
Title: Re: TPI onto 86 Block
Post by: VileZambonie on July 14, 2007, 08:32:39 pm
 ???
What I am saying is the repair lines will screw right into your fuel rail and you won't need all those brass fittings. The repair lines come with a compression fitting if you don't want to flare it to your existing fuel lines that go to the tank end
Title: Re: TPI onto 86 Block
Post by: 123 pugsy on July 15, 2007, 08:28:55 am
Brain Fart  ::). I can just use 5/16 and 3/8 " steel to steel unions
w/o the brass hose barbs and extra threaded connections. Thanks for waking me up.

Next: How about the BL/YEL wire from the Pass-Key to the start enable relay? Can I just ground this or....?????????? I don't have this relay and I really don't want it.

Also: How about the red wire from the fuel pump relay that is "Fuel Pump Prime"? The 87 sending unit together the 92 camero fuel pump has 2 wires. 1 for the gas Gage,1 for the fuel pump, where does the fuel pump prime go? Does it just splice together with the fuel pump wire?
Title: Re: TPI onto 86 Block
Post by: VileZambonie on July 15, 2007, 12:01:11 pm
For the fuel line repair kits make sure you get the ones like I pictured there. They have the bubble flare with o-ring. Any auto parts store should have them.

are u talking about the fuel pump test lead? That shouldn't be hooked up to anything unless you want to bypass the fuel pump enable ckt for testing purposes. The ecm primes the fuel system by energizing the fuel pump relay for 2 seconds when the ignition is first switched on.

As far as grounding the black and yellow wire There's no reason to do this. the pass key module will do that when you switch the ignition on if you have the correct resistor wired in.

Title: Re: TPI onto 86 Block
Post by: 123 pugsy on July 15, 2007, 07:35:53 pm
The return line doesn't screw in, it just slides into the pressure regulator. The inlet doesn't appear to screw in ,so I just used 2 compression fittings to extend the steel lines out.

(http://i45.photobucket.com/albums/f81/123pugsy/DSC03507.jpg)
Title: Re: TPI onto 86 Block
Post by: 123 pugsy on July 15, 2007, 07:40:42 pm
Made up four 18* adapter washers for the 4 center bolt holes as they are on a 72* angle and I'm running older style heads with 90* bolt holes.

(http://i45.photobucket.com/albums/f81/123pugsy/DSC03508.jpg)
Title: Re: TPI onto 86 Block
Post by: 123 pugsy on July 15, 2007, 07:47:14 pm
Got the '87 sending unit with the 92 TPI fuel pump ready.Now I just need to drop the tank, cut 2 slits in it on each side, slide 2 baffles thru the slits and weld them up. Sound like a disaster ready to happen?

(http://i45.photobucket.com/albums/f81/123pugsy/DSC03518.jpg)
Title: Re: TPI onto 86 Block
Post by: 123 pugsy on July 18, 2007, 05:18:30 pm
I don't have a wire in the ALDL for fuel pump.Is there supposed to be one there? If there is one there how is it used.  I've got it wired like the sketch I drew and photographed (as my scanner sucks or maybe I don't know how to use it). I'm thinking I have to join the red wire to the grey wire going to the fuel pump.It looks as though the ECM energizes the red when the key is turned and then the oil pressure will close the switch making contact after the engine has cranked. ???

Comments?

(http://i45.photobucket.com/albums/f81/123pugsy/DSC03534.jpg)
Title: Re: TPI onto 86 Block
Post by: Captkaos on July 18, 2007, 05:46:04 pm
The ALDL in port G is the fuel pump test terminal.  It should apply 12V to the pump.
Title: Re: TPI onto 86 Block
Post by: VileZambonie on July 18, 2007, 06:10:29 pm
The oil pressure switch in this system will supply current if the fuel pump relay fails. I'll attach a description and the schematic.

(http://i6.photobucket.com/albums/y228/Sabaka454/fp.gif)


When the ignition is first turned ON, the ECM turns ON the fuel pump relay for two seconds and the fuel pump builds up system pressure. The ECM then checks the coolant temperature sensor, throttle position sensor (TPS), manifold air temperature (MAT) sensor, and determines the proper air/fuel ratio for starting. This ranges from 1.5:1 at -36°C (-33°F) to 14.7:1 at 94°C (201°F) running temperature. The ECM controls the amount of fuel delivered in the starting mode by changing how long the injectors are turned ON and OFF. This is done by pulsing the injectors for very short times.



OPERATION:
When the key is first turned "ON," without the engine running, the ECM will turn the fuel pump "ON" for two seconds. This builds up the fuel pressure quickly. If the engine is not started within two seconds, The ECM will shut the fuel pump "OFF" and wait until reference pulses are present. As soon as the engine is cranked, the ECM turns the relay "ON" and runs the fuel pump.

As a back up system to the fuel pump relay, the fuel pump can also be turned "ON" by the oil pressure switch. The oil pressure switch is a normally open switch which closes when oil pressure reaches about 28 kPa (4 psi). If the fuel pump relay fails, the oil pressure switch will run the fuel pump.

An inoperative fuel pump relay can result in long cranking times, particularly if the engine is cold, and this should set Code 54 if applicable.


Title: Re: TPI onto 86 Block
Post by: VileZambonie on July 18, 2007, 06:13:14 pm
Also you can see cavity C has a pigtail hanging off of it at the fuel pump relay. That's your test lead
Title: Re: TPI onto 86 Block
Post by: 123 pugsy on July 18, 2007, 06:55:17 pm
Thanks guys. That drawing looks like how the wires were hooked up. The drawing I drew was a copy of the Haines manuel drawing. So it looks like the red wire (test lead) goes to the G pin of the ALDL?

Title: Re: TPI onto 86 Block
Post by: VileZambonie on July 18, 2007, 08:49:53 pm
No. You should have only 3 pins used in your DLC. The fuel pump test terminal is just a connector that hangs out next to the FP relay. It's there for diagnostic purposes and should hook up to nothing unless you are trouble shooting your fuel system.
Title: Re: TPI onto 86 Block
Post by: 123 pugsy on July 19, 2007, 04:32:46 am
Got it.
Now we're moving along nicely. ;)
Thanks.
Title: Re: TPI onto 86 Block
Post by: 123 pugsy on July 20, 2007, 05:25:50 am
I got the computer/engine wiring harness done. ;)

Thanks, Vile.

(http://i45.photobucket.com/albums/f81/123pugsy/DSC03538.jpg)
Title: Re: TPI onto 86 Block
Post by: 123 pugsy on July 20, 2007, 05:32:04 am
I have only one grey mystery wire that goes to PIN D on the connectors from the ALDL/fuse box harness to the computer.There are two connectors marked A thru R. Once I know this ,I can install the internal wiring to the fuse box and dash lites.
Is the voltage to the SES lite coming out at 12 volts?
I need to get a bulb for this and am not sure or maybe use the FASTEN SEAT BELTS light.
Title: Re: TPI onto 86 Block
Post by: anesthes on July 20, 2007, 07:59:30 am
Good job!

I'm doing an EFI swap on my '84, but i'm using TBI. The truck was CC carb, so with a little splicing it should work. Only problem I may run into is getting a VSS signal to the ECM. I need to verify the dash has  VSS output like the '87 dash does, but I imagine it did for the ECM to control converter lockup.

What are you using for a transmission in yours?

I didn't see anything mentioning it, but if your using a '92 1227730 ECM you might have a vats problem on your hand, and you might need to disable a few things in the chip to get things to work properly. When you get to that point drop me a line if you need a hand. If you send me a blank chip I can burn you a program with vats disabled, egr, 02 injection, and a tinker with timing if you need it.

I have an '87 vette as well, that I have repinned the harness to run a 1227730 ECM. It's a 480/500ish HP naturally aspirated 358.
If you ever wanna bounce ideas back and forth let me know. :)

-- Joe

Moderator @ www.thirdgen.org
Title: Re: TPI onto 86 Block
Post by: 123 pugsy on July 20, 2007, 11:04:11 am
I'm running a th350 tranny. I ordered a VSS from Stealth Conversions Part #4PAC. I screws into the speedo cable outlet in the tranny and the speedo cable screws into it.
I've already made up resistors within 5% of the "chip" in the key and wired them in.
As for EGR ,I will be running it as I've read something about it keeping combustion chamber temps down and helping with the timing/detonation.Can't remember exactly but I read its good to use the EGR.
I'll get it running and see how it goes.
Title: Re: TPI onto 86 Block
Post by: Captkaos on July 20, 2007, 12:15:45 pm
What ECM are you using?  Port D on the ALDL is typically the SES Ground.

You can get all the pinouts for ECM's here:
http://www.diy-efi.org/gmecm/ecm_info/

you can swipe the plastic lens out of a SES equipped Speedo and use it in yours in lieu of something else and run a lead/plug straight to it if you want it to look factory.
Title: Re: TPI onto 86 Block
Post by: VileZambonie on July 20, 2007, 12:33:49 pm
You have a grey wire in pin D of the DLC?

It's hard to read because it got shrunk


(http://i6.photobucket.com/albums/y228/Sabaka454/ecm.gif)
Title: Re: TPI onto 86 Block
Post by: 123 pugsy on July 20, 2007, 03:43:25 pm
What ECM are you using?  Port D on the ALDL is typically the SES Ground.

You can get all the pinouts for ECM's here:
http://www.diy-efi.org/gmecm/ecm_info/

you can swipe the plastic lens out of a SES equipped Speedo and use it in yours in lieu of something else and run a lead/plug straight to it if you want it to look factory.

I'm using the 7730. Its not the ALDL I'm talking about. You guys are dealing with a guy who's electronic skill in cars is knowing what a fusebox is. I'm learning for the first time about fuel injection now so I don't know what connector is called what. ???
Easy way is to snap a picture. These 2 plug into the wire harness that comes out beside the computer.They don't plug directly into the computer.

(http://i45.photobucket.com/albums/f81/123pugsy/DSC03545.jpg)


(http://i45.photobucket.com/albums/f81/123pugsy/DSC03551.jpg)


I don't care about the stock look of the SES light. I just need any light available to me on the dash to light up in case of a problem. So I am assuming any 12 volt bulb will work?
Title: Re: TPI onto 86 Block
Post by: VileZambonie on July 20, 2007, 05:09:35 pm
so what do they plug into? If they aren't used then you don't need to worry about it.
Title: Re: TPI onto 86 Block
Post by: 123 pugsy on July 20, 2007, 07:08:26 pm
The 2 black connectors go into the white connectors. I have 1 grey wire that comes across toward the fuse box is all that I don't know what its for......I'll find out later I guess. I left it just hanging loose and taped up as I wired the interior harness up to the fuse box tonight.

I had this small fuse box for the Firebird headlamp doors that I converted. My main fusebox is from an 87 pickup and it had the ECM and CRNK fuse already.

(http://i45.photobucket.com/albums/f81/123pugsy/DSC03557.jpg)

(http://i45.photobucket.com/albums/f81/123pugsy/DSC03558.jpg)


So now I have wiring from 76,87 pickups and 92 Firebird all spliced together. A real mixed bag. Feel sorry for anyone who buys it in the future.
Title: Re: TPI onto 86 Block
Post by: VileZambonie on July 20, 2007, 08:07:16 pm
Well there's lotsa grey wires and schematics aren't listed by where they're routed so you'll have to trace where the other end goes in order to follow it on a schematic.
Title: Re: TPI onto 86 Block
Post by: 77c15 on July 20, 2007, 10:07:31 pm
If it's any consolation, I had to repin a 92 z28 motors wiring harness to match my brothers 88 IROC body....that took a month! Anywho...the posted pictures are the c207 connectors. They control a TON of stuff! If you can figure out what year you nead, you can search the www.thirdgen.org forums for a "c207 diagram", or google search the same. You can also try this one:


Title: Re: TPI onto 86 Block
Post by: 123 pugsy on July 21, 2007, 05:17:26 am
Well there's lotsa grey wires and schematics aren't listed by where they're routed so you'll have to trace where the other end goes in order to follow it on a schematic.

Thanks again! Another brain fart. I traced it back to B11. It looks like a signal for the speedo.


If it's any consolation, I had to repin a 92 z28 motors wiring harness to match my brothers 88 IROC body....that took a month! Anywho...the posted pictures are the c207 connectors. They control a TON of stuff! If you can figure out what year you nead, you can search the www.thirdgen.org forums for a "c207 diagram", or google search the same. You can also try this one:

Thanks 77c15

I found the c207 connector on the diagram Vile posted. What makes it difficult to spot is it shows just 2 of the connections (D and P )from the total 15 in the connector.
Thanks again guys. My wiring is complete!

BTW, is the speedo on the Firebird electronic as in no speedo cable?


(http://i45.photobucket.com/albums/f81/123pugsy/ecm.gif)
Title: Re: TPI onto 86 Block
Post by: 123 pugsy on July 21, 2007, 05:26:28 am
Vehicle Speed Sensor. Just screw in and done. ( I hope )

(http://i45.photobucket.com/albums/f81/123pugsy/DSC03554.jpg)
Title: Re: TPI onto 86 Block
Post by: 123 pugsy on July 21, 2007, 05:30:13 am
Made up a bracket Friday morning at work for the fuel filter. I will bolt this to the frame. It secures with 2 stainless steel hose clamps for easy removal.

(http://i45.photobucket.com/albums/f81/123pugsy/DSC03543.jpg)

(http://i45.photobucket.com/albums/f81/123pugsy/DSC03544.jpg)
Title: Re: TPI onto 86 Block
Post by: VileZambonie on July 21, 2007, 08:58:24 am
Beautiful! Very nice fuel filter mount.

B9 and B10 are going to connect to your VSS.

B11 Won't be used on your truck since your speedo is cable driven.
Title: Re: TPI onto 86 Block
Post by: 77c15 on July 21, 2007, 09:41:13 am
Vehicle Speed Sensor. Just screw in and done. ( I hope )

(http://i45.photobucket.com/albums/f81/123pugsy/DSC03554.jpg)

Where did you get that part? My brothers IROC is cable speedo, but the 92z tranny is speed sensor. That would be a HUGE help to get his speedo working again. Please let me know the part number and where to get it. Thanks!
Title: Re: TPI onto 86 Block
Post by: 123 pugsy on July 21, 2007, 02:33:53 pm
I ordered a VSS from Stealth Conversions Part #4PAC

https://shell7.tdl.com/~jags/SpeedSensors_Order.html (https://shell7.tdl.com/~jags/SpeedSensors_Order.html)
Title: Re: TPI onto 86 Block
Post by: 123 pugsy on July 24, 2007, 08:20:02 pm
Made up a few pieces at work Monday morning for the air filter box. I'm planning on running 4" duct from the rad support ,into the filter box and into the throttle body. I hope I can do this without relocating the alternator or without removing the stock fan and shroud.

(http://i45.photobucket.com/albums/f81/123pugsy/DSC03569.jpg)

(http://i45.photobucket.com/albums/f81/123pugsy/DSC03575.jpg)

(http://i45.photobucket.com/albums/f81/123pugsy/DSC03582.jpg)

(http://i45.photobucket.com/albums/f81/123pugsy/DSC03583.jpg)

(http://i45.photobucket.com/albums/f81/123pugsy/DSC03584.jpg)
Title: Re: TPI onto 86 Block
Post by: Captkaos on July 24, 2007, 11:56:33 pm
SWEET!  What do you normally do at work? :D
Title: Re: TPI onto 86 Block
Post by: 123 pugsy on July 25, 2007, 05:23:00 am
Beautiful! Very nice fuel filter mount.

B9 and B10 are going to connect to your VSS.

B11 Won't be used on your truck since your speedo is cable driven.

Thanks Vile.

SWEET!  What do you normally do at work? :D


Thanks Chris.
I am a stainless steel sheet metal fabricator for restaurant equipment. I have a small shop in Toronto with 10 employees.We also do mirror finish s/s truck parts for a trucking company on occasion.That's why I happen to have stock on the shiny stuff.  ;)



Title: Re: TPI onto 86 Block
Post by: 123 pugsy on July 25, 2007, 05:34:37 am
A little off the TPI but I thought I'd throw it in. I picked up a metal shrinker and stretcher on the weekend and had an order come in yesterday that actually needed these tools. Just thought I'd let you see what they are capable of. This is 20 ga s/s:

(http://i45.photobucket.com/albums/f81/123pugsy/DSC03588.jpg)

(http://i45.photobucket.com/albums/f81/123pugsy/DSC03586.jpg)

I see some great potential there for fabbing up parts for bodywork in the future.

Title: Re: TPI onto 86 Block
Post by: VileZambonie on July 25, 2007, 12:44:33 pm
dang Pugsy, you should fab something real nice up to sell specific for our trucks! Maybe a nice stainless washer bottle or coolant can or wiper motor cover...lol boy if I had access to that stuff I'd be all over it!
Title: Re: TPI onto 86 Block
Post by: Captkaos on July 25, 2007, 05:22:17 pm
That is cool.  My buddy has started playing with stainless lately.  I am trying to get him to make some parts for our trucks.  He is working on some right now, and I am trying to get more from him.
Title: Re: TPI onto 86 Block
Post by: 123 pugsy on July 25, 2007, 07:06:10 pm
Here's a nice piece that brigtens up the top of the rad support.

Before:

(http://i45.photobucket.com/albums/f81/123pugsy/DSC02119.jpg)

After:

(http://i45.photobucket.com/albums/f81/123pugsy/DSC02121.jpg)


Here's an overflow tank:

(http://i45.photobucket.com/albums/f81/123pugsy/DSC03563.jpg)

I have to cut it down as its in the way of the intake air,
It uses the stock plastic filler cap.
Title: Re: TPI onto 86 Block
Post by: Toolmaster on July 25, 2007, 09:38:28 pm
Sharp !  :o 8)
Title: Re: TPI onto 86 Block
Post by: 78BBSTEPSIDE on July 26, 2007, 10:22:26 pm
Some beautiful work! I bet you could fabricate a gas tank that would put Rock Valley to shame, and they build one heck of a gas tank!
Title: Re: TPI onto 86 Block
Post by: 123 pugsy on July 27, 2007, 05:18:38 am


Some beautiful work! I bet you could fabricate a gas tank that would put Rock Valley to shame, and they build one heck of a gas tank!

Thanks,although I've never seen one of their tanks. I more than likely will be building a tank for my next project. Only problem is I don't have my next project car yet.You know.( Wife...babies....yada..yada...yada....)

Title: Re: TPI onto 86 Block
Post by: 123 pugsy on July 30, 2007, 07:06:00 pm
Bracket for the air filter box. I found an old A/C bracket and added a couple pieces of flat bar. Added a reinforcement,a 1/4" thick top plate and hit it with paint and good to go.

(http://i45.photobucket.com/albums/f81/123pugsy/DSC03606.jpg)

(http://i45.photobucket.com/albums/f81/123pugsy/DSC03613.jpg)

(http://i45.photobucket.com/albums/f81/123pugsy/DSC03623.jpg)

(http://i45.photobucket.com/albums/f81/123pugsy/DSC03630.jpg)
Title: Re: TPI onto 86 Block
Post by: 123 pugsy on July 30, 2007, 08:00:10 pm
Made up a few more parts Sunday as my overflow tank has to be moved.Hope it will be large enough. :o

(http://i45.photobucket.com/albums/f81/123pugsy/DSC03619.jpg)

Got them welded up ..........

(http://i45.photobucket.com/albums/f81/123pugsy/DSC03633.jpg)

Polished and screwed in place.....

(http://i45.photobucket.com/albums/f81/123pugsy/DSC03638.jpg)
Title: Re: TPI onto 86 Block
Post by: smlblock on August 03, 2007, 08:15:39 pm
that over flow looks great.  how to make me one lol
Title: Re: TPI onto 86 Block
Post by: VileZambonie on August 08, 2007, 09:00:26 pm
very nice pugsy!
Title: Re: TPI onto 86 Block
Post by: 123 pugsy on August 08, 2007, 09:06:23 pm
Thanks guys.
I should be ready to install the TPI soon. I'm just waiting for some 4" rubber 90* and 45* elbows and an EGR valve solenoid.
I don't know where to find 4" corrugated hose to go from the air filter box to the rad support air intake fitting.
Title: Re: TPI onto 86 Block
Post by: 123 pugsy on August 24, 2007, 05:14:14 pm
Got the air intake hose done and the filter box mounted. Just need a piece of 4" hose from the filter box to the rad support and should be good to go. ;)

(http://i45.photobucket.com/albums/f81/123pugsy/DSC03659.jpg)

(http://i45.photobucket.com/albums/f81/123pugsy/DSC03658.jpg)

(http://i45.photobucket.com/albums/f81/123pugsy/DSC03661.jpg)
Title: Re: TPI onto 86 Block
Post by: 123 pugsy on August 25, 2007, 12:14:44 pm
Well it looks like dryer duct is definitely out! ::)

(http://i45.photobucket.com/albums/f81/123pugsy/DSC03668.jpg)

(http://i45.photobucket.com/albums/f81/123pugsy/DSC03667.jpg)
Title: Re: TPI onto 86 Block
Post by: cjtimp on August 25, 2007, 01:25:11 pm
You are a "Real man of genius!".......... ;D.....seriously tho....that looks great.
Title: Re: TPI onto 86 Block
Post by: 123 pugsy on September 17, 2007, 07:41:48 pm
Thanks cjtimp.

I dropped the tank and found some rust in there so I changed it for an 87  tank with the built in tray.Fuel lines are in and holding pressure. Whew!

Took off the crossover to install a metric stainless steel nut as the O2 sensor bung.

(http://i45.photobucket.com/albums/f81/123pugsy/DSC03692.jpg)

(http://i45.photobucket.com/albums/f81/123pugsy/DSC03696.jpg)
Title: Re: TPI onto 86 Block
Post by: 123 pugsy on September 17, 2007, 07:49:55 pm
Almost done! Got a couple of wires to hook up ,throttle cable and a few other things to do before the trouble starts. I'll be throwing an EGR code as no one has an EGR valve solenoid.  They are back ordered from China. I guess they are too busy over there now as everything is being made there.GM is showing discontinued.

A couple of pics......

(http://i45.photobucket.com/albums/f81/123pugsy/DSC03719.jpg)

(http://i45.photobucket.com/albums/f81/123pugsy/DSC03720.jpg)

(http://i45.photobucket.com/albums/f81/123pugsy/DSC03717.jpg)
Title: Re: TPI onto 86 Block
Post by: VileZambonie on September 17, 2007, 08:38:16 pm
Ask your GM dealer to locate you one. I'm sure someone has one in stock they can UPS you. Or try a few bone yards. www.car-part.com

PS Looks great man!
Title: Re: TPI onto 86 Block
Post by: CruzinHigh on September 20, 2007, 07:04:11 pm
Awesome!  Your fabrication skills are fabulous!    :o
Title: Re: TPI onto 86 Block
Post by: 123 pugsy on September 20, 2007, 07:29:22 pm
Thanks guys.  :)

Now the fun begins.......  just turned it over and no start. I got to get my buddy over so he can turn the key while I check for spark.
How do I test if the injectors are getting power if I find I'm getting spark?......or any other method of how to start the diagnoses will be appreciated.  ??? ??? ??? :o :o :o
Title: Re: TPI onto 86 Block
Post by: jays2w87 on September 20, 2007, 08:42:28 pm
Pugsy, I'm not one to butt right in, but I have to say. I have been reading you project and checkin out the pictures. That is one sweet rig ! Done really nice. Smooth and clean.
And the metal work youve done , wow!
Nice Job Man !
Title: Re: TPI onto 86 Block
Post by: VileZambonie on September 20, 2007, 08:55:55 pm
Unplug an injector. To check for injector operation take your test light to ground and probe either terminal with the key on. One side should have B+. Now go to the other terminal with your test light to B+ and crank the engine. Observe the light and see if it blinks.

Check for spark directly out of the coil.

Verify fuel pressure. These are your 1st quick basic checks.
Title: Re: TPI onto 86 Block
Post by: 123 pugsy on September 21, 2007, 06:23:35 am
Pugsy, I'm not one to butt right in, but I have to say. I have been reading you project and checkin out the pictures. That is one sweet rig ! Done really nice. Smooth and clean.
And the metal work youve done , wow!
Nice Job Man !

Thanks Jay.  :)
Title: Re: TPI onto 86 Block
Post by: 123 pugsy on September 21, 2007, 06:25:39 am
Unplug an injector. To check for injector operation take your test light to ground and probe either terminal with the key on. One side should have B+. Now go to the other terminal with your test light to B+ and crank the engine. Observe the light and see if it blinks.

Check for spark directly out of the coil.

Verify fuel pressure. These are your 1st quick basic checks.

Thanks Vile.

Will do.
Title: Re: TPI onto 86 Block
Post by: 123 pugsy on September 21, 2007, 04:28:21 pm
Unplug an injector. To check for injector operation take your test light to ground and probe either terminal with the key on. One side should have B+.

UH-OH!    2 sides have BATT+   ???
Title: Re: TPI onto 86 Block
Post by: VileZambonie on September 21, 2007, 05:53:54 pm
You are checking with the injector wire unplugged correct?
Title: Re: TPI onto 86 Block
Post by: 123 pugsy on September 21, 2007, 05:56:00 pm
Oh Yeah. Unplugged with key in run. Power to both sides.
Title: Re: TPI onto 86 Block
Post by: VileZambonie on September 21, 2007, 06:00:16 pm
I just looked at a schematic. They are banked injectors. Install the test light in series in the unplugged injector wire and crank it. See if the light blinks.
Title: Re: TPI onto 86 Block
Post by: 123 pugsy on September 21, 2007, 06:27:08 pm
Had the wife turn the key as I held the test light in series and it flashed .
Wa-Hoo.......it also kicked a bit. ;)
Hooked up the injector, played with the distributor and she started up!
Double Wa-Hoo! ;D
Running really rough so I'm sure I have some adjustments to make but I'm outta time for tonight.

Thanks, Vile.

I'm sure I'll have a bunch more questions later on this weekend.
Title: Re: TPI onto 86 Block
Post by: 123 pugsy on September 23, 2007, 11:09:58 am
First problem: My service engine  light doesn't work. I have 4.96 volts on B of the ALDL. I used a jumper from A to B and turned the key to run and no code 12.

Second problem: 5.7 liter TPI. Anyone know what the timing should be? I know I'm supposed to disconnect some bypass thingy which I did and set it to 4* ATDC. I reconnected and the timing was the same??
Title: Re: TPI onto 86 Block
Post by: 123 pugsy on September 23, 2007, 12:56:48 pm
Checked continuity on the SES light wire and its good right to the computer.

 ??? :o ??? :o

Edit:  Found out that the ECM grounds the light not powers it as I thought. I just have to hook up BAT+ to the light and hook up the ground to the ECM.

Just the timing thing still.................................
Title: Re: TPI onto 86 Block
Post by: VileZambonie on September 23, 2007, 07:57:50 pm
You should never have a spec on a gm engine ATDC. The SES bulb should be key on B+ the ECM grounds the light for the bulb check. once it starts the ECM will remove the ground if no hard codes are set and it should go out. Here's the timing spec. The EST Bypass is a single wire connector taped to the harness on the pass side near the rear of the engine. It's tan and black.


The ignition timing marks are located on the engine front cover. A saw slot on the balancer indicates No. 1 piston position.

PROCEDURE:


With the engine running at normal operating temperature, turn OFF all accessories and disconnect the EST By-Pass connector located at the harness near the firewall.
An ECM code will be set when the EST By-Pass connector is disconnected.
Use a timing light and tachometer to set the timing at the specified RPM by loosening the distributor clamp bolt and rotating the distributor until the specified timing is obtained.
^ Base Timing 6°BTDC at 600 RPM

Tighten the distributor clamp bolt and recheck the timing to make sure the distributor was not moved when the clamp was tightened.
Turn the engine "OFF" and connect the EST By-Pass connector.
Clear the ECM Code by disconnecting the negative battery cable for at least 30 seconds.
 
 



Title: Re: TPI onto 86 Block
Post by: 123 pugsy on September 23, 2007, 08:03:54 pm
You should never have a spec on a gm engine ATDC.

Whoops. That should have been BTDC.

Thanks.

I'll set to 6* as per your instructions.
Title: Re: TPI onto 86 Block
Post by: Bitzer! on September 24, 2007, 04:42:37 pm
and......... brum brum?  Its like waiting outside maternity for news on a baby!

Man I've been reading this topic and keepin up to speed [i think!]

Will be starting the Bitzer project soon but mega impressed with how you've done.

top stuff   ;D
Title: Re: TPI onto 86 Block
Post by: 123 pugsy on September 24, 2007, 06:33:11 pm
Thanks alot Bitzer. 
I got the timing set along with some new spark plugs and wires. Feels pretty smooth now but I didn't test drive it yet. I gotta make a bracket to move the throttle cable back about an inch.

So stay tuned Dad and we'll see how this baby goes tommorow I hope.
Title: Re: TPI onto 86 Block
Post by: 123 pugsy on September 25, 2007, 04:58:32 pm
Made up the throttle cable bracket relocator , just hope its not too tight
( pulling on the throttle).

Just gotta go for a test drive. ;)


(http://i45.photobucket.com/albums/f81/123pugsy/DSC03721.jpg)

(http://i45.photobucket.com/albums/f81/123pugsy/DSC03724.jpg)
Title: Re: TPI onto 86 Block
Post by: 123 pugsy on September 25, 2007, 05:32:16 pm
Test Drive:
Seems to be running smoother than before but still rough. :-\ The idle drops down at a red light and feels like its going to stall. No brum,brum. More like ba  ba   ba  ba  ba  ba . It has very little power but cruises along not bad but a little shaky when I get going. Speedo is not working so I imagine the VSS is also not working? Maybe its spinning,not sure.

Ah, the pleasures of modern technology...... ::)
Title: Re: TPI onto 86 Block
Post by: VileZambonie on September 25, 2007, 10:30:03 pm
Did you check your fuel pressure? Do you have a scan tool?
Title: Re: TPI onto 86 Block
Post by: 123 pugsy on September 26, 2007, 05:00:39 am
Did you check your fuel pressure? Do you have a scan tool?

No to both. I have to pick up a fuel pressure tool or guage.
I was thinking to get a guage that I can leave on there. Is there such a thing?
Title: Re: TPI onto 86 Block
Post by: Captkaos on September 26, 2007, 09:38:36 am
Fuel Gauge: Bottom of this page, it mounts where the gauge hooks up normally.  http://hotrodlane.cc/08%20catalog/page%2062.pdf

Did you wire in a light to the diagnotics (psuedo Check engine light)?
Title: Re: TPI onto 86 Block
Post by: 123 pugsy on September 26, 2007, 01:22:28 pm
Fuel Gauge: Bottom of this page, it mounts where the gauge hooks up normally.  http://hotrodlane.cc/08%20catalog/page%2062.pdf

Did you wire in a light to the diagnotics (psuedo Check engine light)?


That guage looks perfect.Can read it anytime.
I installed a light in the dash behind my "Choke" lens. It is working and giving no codes. Just flashing 12.
No code after I set the timing either. Also, I have no EGR solenoid or EGR hooked up/working and no code up for these either.
Title: Re: TPI onto 86 Block
Post by: VileZambonie on September 26, 2007, 01:36:47 pm
You can get an inexpensive set of gauges from autozone or advance etc...
Title: Re: TPI onto 86 Block
Post by: CruzinHigh on September 28, 2007, 06:58:48 pm
What happens when you punch it hard?  I mean lay into it... Does it stumble really hard?

For sure, you gotta get a PSI gauge on it and leave it hooked up for good, (throughout the remainder of the troubleshooting process).  If you can watch it in the cab during a drive even better.

When I put my TPI back together last time I had a vaccum leak on the runners.  It made it run awful.  It set a fault too, but led me down the path of misdiagnosis trying to blame the MAF instead.  If I am not mistaken you are speed density so MAF isn't an issue but just trying to illustrate a point.

How many lb. injectors are you running? Is it a stock setup from a 350 TPI originally?  If you've modded the cam and gone with more flow inside that motor the stock donor 350 fuel pump won't keep up either.  Need at least a 255 liter per hour.  (If I'd read every shred of the post here I am sure you've addressed this already so my apologies if being redundant).

How far is that O2 sensor from the headers?  If it is too far, you'll need a heated 02 possibly if it doesn't get hot enough.  Does it smoke black or anything else odd?   



Title: Re: TPI onto 86 Block
Post by: 123 pugsy on September 29, 2007, 08:09:30 am
I did a key on engine off test on the fuel pressure. 40PSI.
O2 is about 4" behind pass side exhaust manifold.

Can't say anymore as the wife is in labour. She's rushing me out the door.

Pugsy
Title: Re: TPI onto 86 Block
Post by: Bitzer! on September 29, 2007, 10:20:55 am

Good luck with the Missus m8   ;)
Title: Re: TPI onto 86 Block
Post by: 123 pugsy on September 30, 2007, 05:53:30 pm
What happens when you punch it hard?  I mean lay into it... Does it stumble really hard?
How far is that O2 sensor from the headers?  If it is too far, you'll need a heated 02 possibly if it doesn't get hot enough.  Does it smoke black or anything else odd?   

When I punch it hard it doesn't stumble,it just goes like a Honda Civic up a steep grade. It feels like it has no power. I have brand new plugs,cap.rotor,wires.

Like I said above the O2 sensor is about 4" behind the passenger side exhaust manifold.

(http://i45.photobucket.com/albums/f81/123pugsy/DSC03696.jpg)
Title: Re: TPI onto 86 Block
Post by: 123 pugsy on September 30, 2007, 06:32:56 pm
How many lb. injectors are you running? Is it a stock setup from a 350 TPI originally?  If you've modded the cam and gone with more flow inside that motor the stock donor 350 fuel pump won't keep up either.  Need at least a 255 liter per hour.  (If I'd read every shred of the post here I am sure you've addressed this already so my apologies if being redundant).

It doesn't smoke black or anything. I've got a stock set up from a 92 Firebird. The fuel pump should be OK as its brand new. Its the one for the 92 Firebird.

I just checked it. 40 PSI with the key on and engine off. It was 36 PSI with a rapidly bouncing needle when I started it up.
 
I've got an RV cam in it and I was checking  on Summit's web site and the specs say its not computer compatible. ??? ???

http://store.summitracing.com/partdetail.asp?part=CCA-K12-206-2&autoview=sku (http://store.summitracing.com/partdetail.asp?part=CCA-K12-206-2&autoview=sku)
Title: Re: TPI onto 86 Block
Post by: VileZambonie on September 30, 2007, 07:59:56 pm
That cam will be fine so don't sweat it.

Your fuel pressure should be 41.0 to 47.0 psi Key on engine off. If your engine is idling it should be -3.0 to -10.0 PSI less, when vacuum drops to zero it should jump back up. Pop the vacuum hose off itwhile it's idling and see if it jumps up. The bouncing needle on the gauge means either a problem with your gauge or you have a problem with an injector or leak. Try pinching off the return hose and see what happens. Does it hold pressure when you shut it off? Does it run better when the engine is cold?
Title: Re: TPI onto 86 Block
Post by: 123 pugsy on October 04, 2007, 04:32:20 pm
When I say the needle is fluctuating, its very little, probably the pulsations from the fuel pump.

Its at 45 PSI with the vac disconnected from the FPR.
It holds pressure when I shut it down. It appears to be functioning properly.

I'm wondering if not having the EGR solenoid and EGR not being hooked up would cause the rough running?

Vacuum is at 14" hg. If I advance the timing, it cannot reach 18-22". It comes up and then drops down again. It can hit 20" at about 2800 RPM.
Title: Re: TPI onto 86 Block
Post by: VileZambonie on October 04, 2007, 09:30:18 pm
Did you adjust your rockers too tight?

It's not the EGR solenoid not being there. Is there an EGR valve?


Start checking your sensors one at a time. Get your digital volt meter ready and a few paper clips and I'll walk you through each one. Maybe start with the TPS.
Title: Re: TPI onto 86 Block
Post by: 123 pugsy on October 05, 2007, 05:02:37 am
There is an EGR valve, its just not hooked up right now as I don't have the solenoid. Should I just give it some full vacuum or leave it unhooked?

The rockers are not too tight. One is actually a bit loose with a slight tick.

Title: Re: TPI onto 86 Block
Post by: VileZambonie on October 05, 2007, 02:30:56 pm
Make sure the EGR is closed and no put no vacuum to it. As a matter of fact cut a piece of gasket material to block off the bottom of the EGR where it bolts to the manifold so it doesn't work and see what it does. If the valve is hanging open it will RLS
Title: Re: TPI onto 86 Block
Post by: 123 pugsy on October 05, 2007, 06:11:38 pm
Make sure the EGR is closed and no put no vacuum to it. As a matter of fact cut a piece of gasket material to block off the bottom of the EGR where it bolts to the manifold so it doesn't work and see what it does. If the valve is hanging open it will RLS


RLS?? =    Run lousy??
Title: Re: TPI onto 86 Block
Post by: CruzinHigh on October 06, 2007, 12:19:39 pm
Pugsy, I had my EGR blocked off on my TPI setup I was running on the Camaro and it was just fine.  That fitting on your header looks ok for the ox. sensor, as long as it was a close distance to where the donor part was located you should be fine.  Even if it were too far it would just run in open loop operation non-stop (always think it was still "cold" thus en richening the mixture and running on a preset program for injector and timing maps).  I doubt that would duplicate the lazy on power throughout the RPM band symptom.

I do wonder about that cam though.  I did a 305 to 350 swap on my original TPI setup and I changed out the following items-

- All 8 injectors were swapped from the 19? lb. injectors up to 24lb. injectors.  (22 should be sufficient and is stock for the 350's of that era)

- If your fuel pump is a donor from a 350 it should be fine.  I upgraded to a 255 liter per hour Walbro pump though.  I doubt that would cause the lazy running symptoms you've got anyway.

- I had a custom PROM chip burned for MY application specifically - that included having a custom ground cam matched up to the PROM tuning as well.

- The comments about that camshaft really make me curious.  I think the Speed density / MAP setups on TPI systems are a bit more temperamental to modifications then were the MAF systems.  If your setup is significantly different than the donor car this TPI system came from, maybe we can begin to dissect exactly what is different and if it could have impact on your situation.   What I am getting at here is if your heads and cam are quite different than the donor setup the PROM mapping just won't cut it.  Although I must admit I have no experience of what the symptoms act like if you try to run too much motor with an insufficient chip.

- If you have no fault codes, I am wondering if it is something fundamentally wrong with the setup.  No loss of fuel pressure either, so we need to start considering the fundamentals.  Sounds an awful lot like cam timing or something.  Your ign. timing is right on, so what else would make it lazy throughout the RPM range like this?  With any injection system the first things are always checking faults and fuel pressure, and %99 of the time if neither are faulty and the symptoms persist its a mechanical issue. 

Does it knock or ping?  If it is knocking the knock sensor will retard the timing but not throw fault codes (I think.. somebody please verify that comment if I am wrong). 

Hang in there!  You'll get er running Pugsy.  And when you do, you will be really happy with the TPI.  It's a great setup.  A bit outdated these days, but still it is a great midrange torque setup. 
Title: Re: TPI onto 86 Block
Post by: 123 pugsy on October 06, 2007, 04:48:19 pm
Checked the TPS. Voltage is .57 throttle closed and then rising (smoothly) to 4.39 at WOT.

IAC has 54 ohms and 53 ohms resistance between A and B  and between C and D. I read somewhere these should be between 40 and 80 ohms.

I checked each injector (even though they were professionally rebuilt) and found 16.3 to 16.5 ohms.  Checked all the injector wires for continuity and checked out OK. 
Title: Re: TPI onto 86 Block
Post by: 123 pugsy on October 06, 2007, 05:02:00 pm

- I had a custom PROM chip burned for MY application specifically - that included having a custom ground cam matched up to the PROM tuning as well.

-


I wonder if the donor vehicle may have had a custom chip in it??
Title: Re: TPI onto 86 Block
Post by: 123 pugsy on October 06, 2007, 05:23:55 pm
I have the MAP sensor vacuum hooked up to the plenum. Is this correct or should it be hooked up to the intake or is the vacuum the same everywhere?

EDIT:

Disconnected the MAP wire harness and started the truck. Ran and stalled.
Gave a code 34. Appears to be working OK.

Checked the timing. Full advance is 23* at over 3000 RPM.
Title: Re: TPI onto 86 Block
Post by: chevyguy5894 on October 06, 2007, 09:21:11 pm
Sounds like a timing issue even though you stated what the timing was. My wife had a 91 blazer with 4.3 that it ended up being the module in the distributor.  It did the same thing as you described.
Title: Re: TPI onto 86 Block
Post by: 123 pugsy on October 07, 2007, 07:25:11 am
I got to check the coil next. Also check the module. Now I just gotta figure out how to check these things....

I noticed the timing mark dancing around a couple of degrees when I held the light on it at idle. It stayed on the mark firmly at higher RPM's.

I'll eventually find something out of whack.
Title: Re: TPI onto 86 Block
Post by: VileZambonie on October 07, 2007, 09:57:17 am
Pugsy, advance your timing... bring it up to around 36° @ 3,000RPM. Yes RLS means what you said. What's your MAP voltage at idle when you backprobe the sensor? Yes it should be hooked to manifold vacuum. Did you put a vacuum gauge on it? Does the vacuum gauge read steady at idle?
Title: Re: TPI onto 86 Block
Post by: CruzinHigh on October 07, 2007, 11:08:16 am

- I had a custom PROM chip burned for MY application specifically - that included having a custom ground cam matched up to the PROM tuning as well.

-


I wonder if the donor vehicle may have had a custom chip in it??


...I guess that's not very likely.

Also I wouldn't really worry too much about that anyway, the chip should be close enough at least if both setups are close to the same. 

Yep, the MAP definitely goes to a feed from the plenum as well.

Title: Re: TPI onto 86 Block
Post by: 123 pugsy on October 08, 2007, 01:42:07 pm

[/quote]
..I guess that's not very likely.
[/quote]

Never know.The guy I got it from had a nice looking engine in his car.

Pugsy, advance your timing... bring it up to around 36° @ 3,000RPM. Yes RLS means what you said. What's your MAP voltage at idle when you backprobe the sensor? Yes it should be hooked to manifold vacuum. Did you put a vacuum gauge on it? Does the vacuum gauge read steady at idle?

I checked the MAP voltage from the computer key on engine off. I got 5.1 volts across 2 of the 3 wires.

Vacuum is at 14"hg at steady needle ( no bouncing).

I got the timing up to 34* full with same results. Still no power.

I think I'm going to stop playing around until I get the EGR solenoid installed and hooked up properly.

Also do I need a chip to disable AIR? Would this system not being hooked up cause problems?
Title: Re: TPI onto 86 Block
Post by: VileZambonie on October 08, 2007, 04:20:37 pm
The EGR solenoid has nothing to do with it. Keep the timing around 36° total. Make sure the egr valve isn't sticking open at all. Vacuum is still at 14inHg after you advanced the timing? What's your map voltage with the engine idling? If you didn't hook up the A.I.R. don't worry about it. I know this may sound stupid but double check your firing order carefully and that you installed the distributor correctly. Finally unplug the knock sensor and take it for a rip to see what it does.

(http://i6.photobucket.com/albums/y228/Sabaka454/fo-1.gif)
Title: Re: TPI onto 86 Block
Post by: 123 pugsy on October 09, 2007, 06:33:50 pm
The EGR solenoid has nothing to do with it. Keep the timing around 36° total. Make sure the egr valve isn't sticking open at all. Vacuum is still at 14inHg after you advanced the timing? What's your map voltage with the engine idling? If you didn't hook up the A.I.R. don't worry about it. I know this may sound stupid but double check your firing order carefully and that you installed the distributor correctly. Finally unplug the knock sensor and take it for a rip to see what it does.

EGR is brand new,so I'm certain its closed.
Timing full at 36* is 21* at idle. Vacuum steady at 10" hg.
MAP voltage at outside wire at idle is 5.01.
MAP voltage at center wire at idle is 1.73.
Firing order is good.
Haven't unplugged the knock and drive it yet. Perhaps tommorow.
Title: Re: TPI onto 86 Block
Post by: VileZambonie on October 09, 2007, 09:37:34 pm
Your vacuum is really low!

Do you have any vacuum leaks? Does it run different with the oil cap off?

You are absolutely 100 % positive your firing order is good no #5 and #7 crisscrossed?

Your exhaust isn't plugged?

Your valves are not too tight?

Your cam timing is correct?
Title: Re: TPI onto 86 Block
Post by: 123 pugsy on October 10, 2007, 05:00:26 am
Your vacuum is really low!
Do you have any vacuum leaks? Does it run different with the oil cap off?
You are absolutely 100 % positive your firing order is good no #5 and #7 crisscrossed?
Your exhaust isn't plugged?
Your valves are not too tight?
Your cam timing is correct?

Firing order is correct.

I will check again for vacuum leaks.

I will have to check it with the oil cap off. Well maybe not .One side has the PCV valve and the other side has a breather.

These are the heads I'm running:http://store.summitracing.com/partdetail.asp?autofilter=1&part=WRL%2D043600%2D1&N=700+400240+309119+115&autoview=sku (http://store.summitracing.com/partdetail.asp?autofilter=1&part=WRL%2D043600%2D1&N=700+400240+309119+115&autoview=sku)

Keep in mind that this engine was running fine with an Edelbrock carb and intake before I installed the TPI. This same engine was pulling 22" vacuum. Nothing has been done to the engine or exhaust system.

A pic of the vacuum when it was on the test stand:


(http://i45.photobucket.com/albums/f81/123pugsy/DSC03052.jpg)

Title: Re: TPI onto 86 Block
Post by: VileZambonie on October 10, 2007, 10:38:26 am
One more thing to check - make sure the set timing connector is connected and has continuity from the ign module to the ecm
Title: Re: TPI onto 86 Block
Post by: 123 pugsy on October 10, 2007, 05:58:24 pm
One more thing to check - make sure the set timing connector is connected and has continuity from the ign module to the ecm

Checked for continuity and its good. While I was at it I discovered the proper timing set connector. It turns out I was disconnecting the wrong harness. I set the timing to 6* with it disconnected and got my code 42. It advances to 36* full in when I rev to 3000 and bypass connected.

Found the vacuum to FPR disconnected and  I now have 16"hg.

Interesting that the vacuum goes higher at more throttle. I thought it should go down thus allowing more fuel pressure.
Title: Re: TPI onto 86 Block
Post by: 123 pugsy on October 13, 2007, 05:25:08 pm
I now have 17" vacuum.

I did a brake torque in the garage and managed to spin the back wheel. ;D

Took it for a drive and it seems to be running OK. Its only a little shaky in DRIVE stopped at a light.

I stomped on it when the light changed green and it spun the tires like crazy. I guess it could have something to do with it raining out.  ::)

Can't wait for the rain to stop to see how she goes on dry pavement.





Thanks to Vile Zambonie for all your help.

Pugsy

Title: Re: TPI onto 86 Block
Post by: CruzinHigh on October 14, 2007, 11:01:03 am
 ;D

Shhwwing!   Did it stop raining yet?!   Come on we wanna hear some more tire roasting stories!

Great job keeping with it guys.  Some good ole do it yourself detective work. I hope this is it and you nailed it down Pugsy.






Title: Re: TPI onto 86 Block
Post by: 123 pugsy on October 14, 2007, 05:55:40 pm
;D
Shhwwing!   Did it stop raining yet?!   Come on we wanna hear some more tire roasting stories!
Great job keeping with it guys.  Some good ole do it yourself detective work. I hope this is it and you nailed it down Pugsy

The rain has stopped and I took her out for a cruise with my buddy Mark. Stopped to drop off a video, pulled a right hand turn with the pedal to the mat and.........chirp. Nothing!
That's it!

Cruised down to my shop to empty trash that's accumulated over the last month and all the while dropping to 2nd ( I don't have a passing gear cable) and stomping on it all the way there. Still a little rough.

Cruised over to wreckers to look for an EGR solenoid. Pulled out to the main road and stomped on her on a right turn and WAHOOOO. She spun the tires a bit.

Cruised around for about an hour and kept abusing the engine. The more I abused it ,the better it ran.

It runs as smooth as silk now and goes like a bat out of heck.

I think its a combination of the computer "learning" again as I cruised around and all that abuse blowing out the carbon that must have been accumulated in the engine.

Goodbye Carburetors forever......RIP.......

Absolutely unbelievable sooth acceleration and power.

Filled up the gas tank and the darn gas was spewing out somewhere by the top of the sending unit. ??? Oh well! I don't care.That will be an easy fix. ;)

I'd like to thank everyone for their input and comments thru this long project.
A special thanks to Vile again. Every comment he made hit dead on.

Pugsy
Title: Re: TPI onto 86 Block
Post by: VileZambonie on October 14, 2007, 08:00:49 pm
Glad you got the BIG bugs worked out Pugsy! And don't hesitate to ever ask me for help! Let's keep this trucks alive and kickin
Title: Re: TPI onto 86 Block
Post by: mike357 on October 14, 2007, 09:01:30 pm
vile, do you have the equipment to re-burn chips? well... what i mean i guess is to remap the chips. i have a rinky-dink burner from moat but i need a way to make the maps to burn into the chips.. did this make any sense at all?
Title: Re: TPI onto 86 Block
Post by: VileZambonie on October 15, 2007, 06:32:46 pm
vile, do you have the equipment to re-burn chips? well... what i mean i guess is to remap the chips. i have a rinky-dink burner from moat but i need a way to make the maps to burn into the chips.. did this make any sense at all?

No I don't sorry
Title: Lowering Kit
Post by: 123 pugsy on November 08, 2007, 07:43:07 pm
Well its time for the lowering kit install.
Pics say it all. I got the drivers side done. Its hard to tell, but I got at least
1-1/2" drop.





Title: Re: TPI onto 86 Block
Post by: VileZambonie on November 09, 2007, 06:09:47 pm
What did you do, just cut a coil? Make sure you align that pup!
Title: Re: TPI onto 86 Block
Post by: 123 pugsy on November 09, 2007, 06:58:32 pm
Yep. I finished the passenger side today. I gotta take it for a little spin tommorow to see if its OK. Should be as they are the heavy duty springs.
I'll get an alignment this week if it feels OK.
Title: Re: TPI onto 86 Block
Post by: SatisTraction on November 10, 2007, 05:55:26 am
how is the mileage on your TPI? you asked about mine in the Welcome forum and I am getting about 18-20 mpg. like you said the power is smooth!!! HOWEVER it is not tire roasting power  :(
Title: Re: TPI onto 86 Block
Post by: 123 pugsy on November 10, 2007, 08:30:37 am
I'm still checking the milage. I don't drive it every day. With my 30" tires it doesn't burn too far, but she definately spins the tire. My first tank of gas got real bad milage as I was laying rubber on every takeoff. The second tank when I filled it all the way up was leaking ,so I kept driving like a mad man too burn it off faster.
I'm gonna go for a cruise and fill up to check it out this morning.
Title: Re: TPI onto 86 Block
Post by: 123 pugsy on November 10, 2007, 04:18:17 pm
 >:(......... :(.......... ???................ :'(.............. :-\................ :o......................

11.26MPG................




Title: Re: TPI onto 86 Block
Post by: VileZambonie on November 10, 2007, 04:40:33 pm
Why such crappy mileage Pugsy? You should get around 17 with oyur set up I would say..
Title: Re: TPI onto 86 Block
Post by: werewolfx13 on November 10, 2007, 05:04:53 pm
Right foot still a tad heavy maybe? Either way, its a lot better than I get in town.  :o
Title: Re: TPI onto 86 Block
Post by: 123 pugsy on November 10, 2007, 07:01:32 pm
Why such crappy mileage Pugsy? You should get around 17 with oyur set up I would say..


I have no idea . The plugs look good and its running smooth. Maybe I should look at using the 700r4.

My setup is like this right now:

350 with flat top 4 valve relief pistons .040 over
Approx. 9-1 comp. ratio
World S/R heads
RV cam
3:40 gears
30.5" tires
TH 350 non lockup tranny
2-1/2 " single exhaust with cat

Right foot still a tad heavy maybe? Either way, its a lot better than I get in town.  :o

If this is better than what you are getting ,you have my deepest sympathies. :'(
I purposely drove around without laying on it heavy. I only stomped on it one time through the last tank.

Title: Re: TPI onto 86 Block
Post by: werewolfx13 on November 10, 2007, 07:59:19 pm
I get 5-8 mpg in town...2.73 gears + bad modulator valve + slow moving town traffic = crap mileage. I regularly get stuck behind cars that are in a dead zone for speed for me..sitting in first gear running 25-30 mph at 3500-4k rpm for extended periods of time, or 45-50 mph in 2nd gear at 4k rpm.

Thought about dual exhaust or larger single exhaust? Not sure if it would help, but it might..
Title: Re: TPI onto 86 Block
Post by: VileZambonie on November 10, 2007, 11:28:22 pm
Pugsy, invest in a cheap scan tool. Auto X-ray or Acutron or the like. you need to look at you computers datastream. The Win ALDL software that I have seen is kind of crap and a PITA for most applications.  I recommend a decent hand held Scan tool. Anyway the 700R4 is a great upgrade. just for the heck of it, what's your fuel pressure key on engine off / key one engine running. Does it bleed down whe you shut the engine off?
Title: Re: TPI onto 86 Block
Post by: 123 pugsy on November 11, 2007, 06:47:12 am
Forgot to mention that I still don't have an EGR valve solenoid. Can't find one anywhere in Canada or the US. They are still back ordered from China. :-\
I get an EGR code after about 15 minutes of cruising.
Title: Re: TPI onto 86 Block
Post by: 123 pugsy on November 11, 2007, 06:50:08 am
I get 5-8 mpg in town...2.73 gears + bad modulator valve + slow moving town traffic = crap mileage. I regularly get stuck behind cars that are in a dead zone for speed for me..sitting in first gear running 25-30 mph at 3500-4k rpm for extended periods of time, or 45-50 mph in 2nd gear at 4k rpm.

Thought about dual exhaust or larger single exhaust? Not sure if it would help, but it might..

Forget about the exhaust for now.
Sounds like you should change your modulator valve if that's the reason behind your insane RPM's. Its cheap and simple to do.
Title: Re: TPI onto 86 Block
Post by: VileZambonie on November 11, 2007, 10:13:42 am
EGR solenoid won't change fuel economy. I can get you a solenoid tomorrow if you want.

Title: Re: TPI onto 86 Block
Post by: 123 pugsy on November 11, 2007, 01:36:55 pm
EGR solenoid won't change fuel economy. I can get you a solenoid tomorrow if you want.

Can you check your suppliers to see if they have it. I'm curious to see if they have it. I'd like to have everything running to stock conditions. Thanks.
Niehoff part # FE9002
Standard part # VS19
Title: Re: TPI onto 86 Block
Post by: VileZambonie on November 11, 2007, 06:47:22 pm
sure what's the original engine/cpu application? Again?
Title: Re: TPI onto 86 Block
Post by: 123 pugsy on November 11, 2007, 07:26:35 pm
1992 trans am 350 TPI  .... not sure of anything else.
Title: Re: TPI onto 86 Block
Post by: VileZambonie on November 11, 2007, 07:56:51 pm
I saw a bunch of places online that have them new http://www.amdish.com/ItemId/B000C805O6
Have u checked the junkyard? If you can't find one I can source you one for sure. I might even have one kickin around somewhere
Title: Re: TPI onto 86 Block
Post by: 123 pugsy on November 11, 2007, 08:13:20 pm
I'll try a couple more, but Ive called a couple of guys in the States, they say they have one until I tell them I want it and they can't find it anywhere but in their computer.

My NAPA dealer told me there's none to be found or else he could order one for me.

I'll make a few more calls tommorow.
Title: Re: TPI onto 86 Block
Post by: 123 pugsy on November 12, 2007, 09:13:19 am
I saw a bunch of places online that have them new http://www.amdish.com/ItemId/B000C805O6
Have u checked the junkyard? If you can't find one I can source you one for sure. I might even have one kickin around somewhere

These guys don't ship to Canada.
Parts America Online doesn't ship to Canada either but I went through the order process and they don't have stock either.
Title: Re: TPI onto 86 Block
Post by: VileZambonie on November 12, 2007, 01:23:52 pm
My supply house has it in stock for $68 bucks. The Standard is cheaper but on back order
Title: Re: TPI onto 86 Block
Post by: werewolfx13 on November 12, 2007, 05:11:52 pm
I was referring to YOUR exhaust, have you thought about installing duals? I've already got dual 2.25" exhaust w/ cats and glasspacks on mine. Changing the modulator valve is a matter of me being lazy, its been like this since I bought it in late summer/early fall of last year.
Title: Re: TPI onto 86 Block
Post by: 123 pugsy on November 12, 2007, 05:45:40 pm
I was referring to YOUR exhaust, have you thought about installing duals? I've already got dual 2.25" exhaust w/ cats and glasspacks on mine. Changing the modulator valve is a matter of me being lazy, its been like this since I bought it in late summer/early fall of last year.

Sorry about that.
I'm not thinking about duallies. I have a FULL 2-1/2" exhaust. Every turn is made from a stainless steel elbow. Absolutely zero squished bends or turns. This should be more than sufficient and I believe better for low end torque.
Title: Re: TPI onto 86 Block
Post by: 123 pugsy on November 12, 2007, 05:50:36 pm
My supply house has it in stock for $68 bucks. The Standard is cheaper but on back order

PM sent.
Pugsy
Title: Re: TPI onto 86 Block
Post by: VileZambonie on November 12, 2007, 05:53:41 pm
Hey Pugsy if you want me to get it for you I will and then you can just paypal me the $ plus shipping. If you want me to get it I'll order it in the morning. Let me know.
Title: Re: TPI onto 86 Block
Post by: 123 pugsy on November 12, 2007, 06:42:38 pm
Ya sure, sounds good. ;D
Thanks
Title: Re: TPI onto 86 Block
Post by: VileZambonie on November 13, 2007, 10:10:58 am
OK I ordered it. I'll let you know when it comes in.
Title: Re: TPI onto 86 Block
Post by: 123 pugsy on November 13, 2007, 10:14:09 am
Thanks.
Title: Re: TPI onto 86 Block
Post by: VileZambonie on November 17, 2007, 01:44:18 am
Pugsy, he said it should be in on Monday... I'll let you know.
Title: Re: TPI onto 86 Block
Post by: 123 pugsy on November 17, 2007, 05:51:06 am
Right on.  ;D
Title: Re: TPI onto 86 Block
Post by: 123 pugsy on November 17, 2007, 03:01:57 pm
Shot after the spring chop:




 


Title: Re: TPI onto 86 Block
Post by: 123 pugsy on November 18, 2007, 11:52:35 am
I took out about 1-1/2" off the rear lifting blocks and now have no rake. I think it looks alot better. Doesn't look like a 4x4 wannabe anymore.

Title: Re: TPI onto 86 Block
Post by: 123 pugsy on November 19, 2007, 04:37:06 pm
Before and after the spring chop:



Title: Re: TPI onto 86 Block
Post by: Captkaos on November 19, 2007, 05:13:38 pm
DANG that did bring it down!!  What springs did you use?
Title: Re: TPI onto 86 Block
Post by: werewolfx13 on November 19, 2007, 07:20:47 pm
Nice work..I woulda left the old stance myself, but to each their own. ;)
Title: Re: TPI onto 86 Block
Post by: 123 pugsy on November 19, 2007, 07:56:58 pm
DANG that did bring it down!!  What springs did you use?

According to the diameter (.826") of the springs, they were the heavy duty Moog's for a big block truck. I had ordered regular duty springs, but these were in the box and I didn't know. I just cut 1 coil off and took out 1-1/2" off the lift blocks.

Front end alignment tomorrow.

Nice work..I woulda left the old stance myself, but to each their own. ;)

I liked it at first, but it didn't grow on me. Don't know why......
Title: Dyno
Post by: 123 pugsy on November 21, 2007, 05:05:03 am
Dyno results: ( at the wheels)

The blue line is the first pull. The air/fuel looks like it drops to 10:1 but the guy says its lower as that's where the computer flat lines.

The red line is the second pull with the air filter hose disconnected. It picked up 22 HP and 20 Ft/LBS of torque. The air/fuel ratio came up also but not to where it should be.The guy says I should install headers and the ratio should come up some more.

That looks like one reason for such poor fuel economy.                 
Title: Re: TPI onto 86 Block
Post by: VileZambonie on November 21, 2007, 08:35:24 pm
Pugsy lookin good man. That Solenoid hasn't shown up yet... I have the feeling he's gonna tell me it's factory backordered lol. I'll let you know for sure. BTW any Vacuum operated GM EGR solenoid should work.
Title: Re: TPI onto 86 Block
Post by: 123 pugsy on November 22, 2007, 05:25:28 am
Pugsy lookin good man. That Solenoid hasn't shown up yet... I have the feeling he's gonna tell me it's factory backordered lol. I'll let you know for sure. BTW any Vacuum operated GM EGR solenoid should work.

I'm sure you'll find its back ordered.
All the companies that are moving to China at the same time never considered if they would be able to complete all the orders or not. :P   I'm finding more and more stuff back ordered all the time.

I'll go and pull one from the wreckers.

Thanks.
Title: Re: TPI onto 86 Block
Post by: 79shortbed on November 25, 2007, 09:38:43 am
i had my tbi dyno'd and it produced the 186hp

wouldnt you tpi setup blow a tbi away?
Title: Re: TPI onto 86 Block
Post by: 123 pugsy on November 25, 2007, 03:09:39 pm
i had my tbi dyno'd and it produced the 186hp

wouldnt you tpi setup blow a tbi away?

It should.

I gotta make up a set of headers for it. I should pickup about another 20 HP and hopefully 20 FT/LBS of torque. I'm going to use 1-1/2" primaries to 2-1/2" collectors. I will try to keep primaries at 28".

BTW,what kind of torque numbers did you get?

The most important thing on this engine for me is torque. I love to jump off the line quick. ;D
Title: Re: TPI onto 86 Block
Post by: 79shortbed on November 25, 2007, 04:08:16 pm
i can really recall, i think it was 260 something.
Title: Re: TPI onto 86 Block
Post by: Captkaos on December 03, 2007, 05:58:25 pm

I'm sure you'll find its back ordered.
All the companies that are moving to China at the same time never considered if they would be able to complete all the orders or not. :P   I'm finding more and more stuff back ordered all the time.

I checked at all the places I went to Sunday and 3 of them said they could get me an EGR the next day for a 1992 TPI Camaro 350.  Want me to get one?
Title: Re: TPI onto 86 Block
Post by: 123 pugsy on December 03, 2007, 08:47:18 pm
Thanks Chris.The EGR I got,its the EGR solenoid that's back ordered. Its OK now until spring time. We're getting alot of early snow up here. I'll wait till then and see if they come in  and if not I'll let you know.

Thanks again.
Pugsy