MY GM PREDICTIONS:

[Stewart G Griffin]

i just thought of something;  Since we, the people technically own gm, then we the people should demand that pontiac stays.  We gave 50 billion so far?  This is OUR money.

Let's figure out how to do this.  Seriously---this is too important.

[eventhorizon66]

Why should pontiac stay?  They died in 1970.  The only decent cars they've offered in 39 years, they didn't make.  Maybe we should just move Holden to the US.

And as far as the SBC disappearing from GMPP catalog (which I don't think will happen for a really LOOOOONG time), let it disappear.  Except for a used block, most parts that used to build performance SBCs are aftermarket anyways.

[Stewart G Griffin]

Well, i would have to disagree that pontiac "died" in 70 or in 81 (after they didn't make their own v-8's anymore), but that's a subject for another thread.

2) Are you saying that the "new" crate 350 (and other crates) are really a remanufactured engine using a core?


3) But more importantly right now, how can we enact legislation to keep pontiac?  This is very important, and remember---it's our company, our money, and our government.  We can do this.

[1HI4x4]

I don't understand what Pontiac brings to the table? What is Pontiac? Every model they have is just a rebadge of another GM product. What GM needs to do is slim down into two brands, Chevrolet, and Cadillac. Why are they out there trying to compete against themselves with the other brands? Supporting dealerships that are across the road from each other? Every dealership that sells Chevrolet should also have Cadillac. If this was your personal money(and it is) you wouldn't allow the waste in duplicate services.

The bottom line is only "X" amount of cars are going to be sold this year, so why do you want to slice up that market into several brands that all require a support system that is a drain on the parent company?

The big three(2 that are ours) need to learn a hard lesson in efficiency, something they haven't been since the 40's-50's.

[VileZambonie]

cmon! They build excitement!

[Stewart G Griffin]

1) And furthermore i'm shocked that you, an oldsmobile fan, would want pontiac to go away;  As you are well aware buick olds and pontiac were grouped together for a long time.   The fact that you could care less about the SBC, however, doesn't surprise me---again because your into oldsmobile.  It's still GM though and that's why i support BOP, Cad and GMC even though i'm primarly a chevy person.

2) But pontiac has always (at least since the 50's) been a rebadge of another gm product!  Actually ALL gm products are rebadges of another gm product!  (except for a few---i.e., corvette etc.)

a) If this really was a waste of $$$, GM would have pulled the plug on this formula long ago.

b) i feel it's all about sales (but it probably really isn't)----the more, the merrier regardless of what brand is on the fender.

c) We have to remember that all the gm carlines are built in the same factory with the same workers.  For example the chevy c-10 and gmc c-15 were built in the same factory using the same parts.  Therefore i feel/surmise that the small cosmetic/front end/rear end differences are minimal in terms of cost.

Yes, there is going to be an advertising cost that might not be there if there was only one brand of a chassis line, but then again maybe not.

3) Go ahead and make fun, but the J-2000/sunbird etc. was and is a good car;  i speak from experience.  i especially dig the firebird front end.   That's what makes pontiac awesome.

a) i don't think 150hp and convertable options while getting 30mpg are anything to laugh at.

[LUV2XCLR8]

I didn't read every page, but my Website took a tour of the Vette
plant in March of 09 and the XLR is history. (They told us on Tour)

[VileZambonie]

the J-2000/sunbird etc. was and is a good car;  i speak from experience.

I'll tell you as I am speaking from experience that car was a clunker and an under powered pile of junk. I was a GM tech and worked on many. Blow by, oil leaks, broken nylon timing gears, and bad cv joints on practically every single one of them that made it that far. Not to mention it's quite ridiculous in the looks department. Pontiac has put out some decent cars just like every manufacturer has but as you may have inadvertently pointed out Stewart, it's just a badge. It's a GM product. What's the difference if it says Pontiac or Buick or Chevrolet at this point? It's pretty much all the same junk underneath it's skin.

[Stewart G Griffin]

1) correction:  Even the corvette and xlr share a chassis (this in itself is a mistake).  So EVERY gm car is a duplicate.
a) if pontiac really were making their own cars and not having to share chassises, then i could see where it would be "wasting" money.   But this is clearly not the case.



2) i have 280,000 miles on a cavalier(same as sunbird)---original engine and trans thank you very much.

a)i would have to say that almost any car after a while leaks some oil?
b) timing gears go
c) i just had my cv joints replaced----it happens on fwd cars eventually?

d) Again, i don't think 150 hp in a 2700 lbs car is exa........never mind.

But the bottom line to all this is we need pontiac.

[dumbucket1]

Stewart, I had 3 cavaliers over the years and all of them had the 2.0 or 2.2 chevy 4cyl engines. They all 3 were also very good cars. I had an 84, a 89, and a 98. All of the sunbirds and j2000s I ever looked at had the crappy daihatsu made 4 cyl. Maybe that is the engine vile is talking about.

[Stewart G Griffin]

1) ok i know that the sunbird/2000 had a different engine, at least initially.  But other than that and when they switched to chevy power, i don't think there can be any question as far as reliability is concerned.

But more importantly as far as the "ridiculous" styling goes, i'm sure millions of chinese consumers would disagree with you and would gobble it up.  Gm needs to wake up and realize this.

[VileZambonie]

You know millions of chinese people eh? :lol You sure you're sure?
Why are we talking about what chinese people want to gobble up and why do they want Pontiac J2000's?

[Stewart G Griffin]

You know millions of chinese people eh? :lol You sure you're sure?
Why are we talking about what chinese people want to gobble up and why do they want Pontiac J2000's?

So do you really think that the current buicks actually look better than the above example of the j2000, which really, is not a bad looking car come on.

[1HI4x4]

The answer is yes, the J2000 has to be right there with the Pacer when it comes to styling. I still don't understand why keeping Pontiac is so important. Like I said above I think GM should slim down into 2 brands, and both should be available at all GM dealerships.

[DnStClr]

Hey. I happen to like my 07 Buick Lucerne. (OK so it's an old people car- i'm an old people)