Converter and Cam Question

[TexasRed]

I'm building a 383 with around 9.5:1, 3.42 rear end, shortbed 84, four barrel carb, vortec heads, and dual exhaust with manifolds (hopefully with some cash a set of shorty headers).

The cam will probably be

http://northernautoparts.com/ProductModelDetail.cfm?ProductModelId=18646

but if that requires me to get a new converter with higher stall, I might get

http://www.jegs.com/i/Crower/258/00915/10002/-1

Will either require a higher stall? Which cam would you recommend? I'm leaning towards speedpro because I think it'll be much better for my application.

[VileZambonie]

No and actually that cam isn't much bigger than stock. Why such a mild cam? I'd build some more lift into the cam personally.

[TexasRed]

I'm cheap and don't want to go over the max lift on vortec's without doing more work. Lazy and cheap I is.

[HAULIN IT]

Tex, You can get real close to .500 lift stock & with careful spring/retainer choices (beehives), you can go over that. Put some more cam in it. My Two cents, mid-high 220's @.050 & .480-.500 lift at least. It's 380+ cubic inches! What transmission do you have? Lorne

[eventhorizon66]

+1.  You'll be disappointed with that motor.  It'll pull real nice from idle to about 3500 and then run out of puff.  That said, you should also try real hard to get some headers on the engine, even if they are shorties.  If you cannot, then you may be better off with a small cam (though maybe not as small as the one you spec'd).  Increasing overlap on an engine with a restrictive exhaust is not a good idea.

With headers, a cam along the lines of a Isky 270 Megacam, would be my smallest choice, even if low-end torque was a major priority.  I would also clearance the heads (pushrod holes) for 1.6:1 rockers on the intake valves.  Note: Always check for proper rocker sweep across the center of the valve tip, especially after installing high-ratio rockers and adjust pushrod length accordingly.

If you are going to all the trouble building a 383, why cheap out on a little machine work to the heads?  But like HAULIN IT said, I've also read that the superior beehive springs increase retainer-to-guide clearance.  They are about $185 a set (that's for the springs alone), so it won't save you any money, but you'll end up with better springs.  Why are they better?  In the case of a flat tappet cam they can offer better valve control with less over-the-nose spring pressure, which translates directly into longer cam life and less chance of break-in problems along with more rpm potential.  This is due to the spring's lower mass, the much lower mass of the retainer (steel beehive retainers are lighter than titanium retainers for traditional springs), and higher resonate frequency of the tapered beehive design.

Check out this article: http://www.carcraft.com/techarticles/vortec_valve_spring_upgrade/index.html

Since this article was written, Comp has released a beehive spring designed specifically for flat tappet cams (the ones in the article are originally designed for roller cams).  The part number for the new springs is #26986-16 for the set.

[TexasRed]

Well, I want it to idle pretty smooth and mostly be a sleeper. Also I'd like to be able to do a small amount of towing with it. It's got a lot of memories from pulling a popup around Oklahoma with my grandparents when I was a kid. It'll lose puff around 3500? LOL, just like the 305 it's replacing?

I'm running a 700r4. Came from the factory with a th350c.

Also, I'm thinking of these shorties: http://www.jegs.com/i/Edelbrock/350/65273/10002/-1

[eventhorizon66]

Well 3500 was a bit of an exaggeration, but you get the picture.  My CamQuest program predicts that an engine similar to the one you spec'd would make peak hp around 4500.

[VileZambonie]

It'll be a sleeper alright....because it won't wake up. The price is no different because the grind changes. You want a cheap cam, here : http://store.summitracing.com/partdetail.asp?part=SUM%2DK1105&view=1&N=700+150+

[TexasRed]

Will that allow me to still get decent mileage with my overdrive? I figure I'll be cruising at 1500-1800 rpm on the highway.

[VileZambonie]

yeah and you can run your stock converter

[TexasRed]

Actually I think I prefer that Isky cam. Tighter Lope Separation angle. I don't mind spending money but I'd like to at least not overspend where not needed. So for more lift I can get the beehive springs AND the retainers? That's it? I have the stamped steel rockers that were stock on the vortecs. Also, will it hurt if the intake manifold I have is for idle and up? I do plan to upgrade the exhaust system, but I"d rather by the headers and get new mufflers at the same time. These old glass packs are loud!

[eventhorizon66]

It'll be a sleeper alright....because it won't wake up.

LOL, I like that one!

Actually I think I prefer that Isky cam. Tighter Lope Separation angle. I don't mind spending money but I'd like to at least not overspend where not needed. So for more lift I can get the beehive springs AND the retainers? That's it? I have the stamped steel rockers that were stock on the vortecs. Also, will it hurt if the intake manifold I have is for idle and up? I do plan to upgrade the exhaust system, but I"d rather by the headers and get new mufflers at the same time. These old glass packs are loud!

Regardless of the spring you choose, you'll need to do a guide to retainer clearance check.  To confirm that beehive springs will do the trick for you, you could just buy one beehive-style retainer and a checking spring, install it on the valve at the proper height, and measure how much lift you can achieve.  I have not run beehives on vortecs myself, so I can't confirm that it works, but the author of that article I posted seems to think so.  But beehive retainers are significantly smaller than traditional retainers, so it makes sense that they would add a little clearance here.

But like I said earlier, if a low budget reigns supreme, you should check into the total cost of machining down the valve guides and running traditional springs.  Also, the cam/lifter kit Vile recommended will be some $100 cheaper than my recommendation, and would definitely make your motor healthy.  Also summit offers a Street/Strip line of cam/lifter kits for about $140 and they are ground on a tighter 110 LCA.  Leaving some power on the table maybe be worth it to you, if your goal is just to get a healthy SBC for minimum cash outlay.  You'd be surprise how quickly the little costs sneak up you, when you start making little allowances here and there.  Just something to consider.  But I'd personally be more inclined to go with the Isky 270 cam and cut costs elsewhere.

Here are some books I wish I had read before sinking my money into a crappy crate motor:
How to Build Max Perf Chevy Small-Blocks on a Budget
How to Build Horsepower, Volume 1
How to Build Horsepower, Volume 2
How to Build and Modify Chevrolet Small-Block V-8 Camshafts and Valves

[MITOYZ]

If your staying with the 700R4 and you get a stall stay away from lock up converters,they cause the transmission to cycle between shifts to much exspeacially on 4x4 with bigger tires and not enough gear,it will cause premature tranny wear.

[eventhorizon66]

I would personally never use a 700R4 without a lockup converter (except for on a dedicated race machine).  But I do agree that the TCC cycling excessively can be a real problem.  Fortunately, the TCC being electrically switched, there are many ways to tune exactly when you want it to lockup (speed, throttle position, transmission gear, etc.).  I was actually thinking about adapting a TPS sensor to my carb and a speed sensor to my tranny and then making my own adjustable control curcuit to fine tune the lockup conditions on my truck.  Sounds like a fun project, huh?  Also Transgo makes a hydraulically controlled TCC kit, but I think you have to remove the VB to adjust it.

[VileZambonie]

Transgo makes some good modifications that are simple to eliminate converter lock/unlock/lock/unlock etc. If you're running a 700R4 with 35" Tires I'd run 4.11"s