body shop rip offs

[rustys82]

just got an estimate to have my cab corners and rockers cut out and welded in.  man, i have the parts.    i told them i will do the grinding and filling and painting.  they wanted 1500 to cut and weld. you guys are right. buy a welder for that much money and  DIY.

[4x4orbust]

i agree 100%

my 01 has some rocker rot, brought to the local body shop, $750 for one side. just the rocker, no paint. (i'm going to bedliner the rockers)  a welder is cheaper than that!

[VileZambonie]

Time is money guys. Think of it like this...

$90 bucks an hour for 10 hours is $900 plus materials and shop fees then add sales tax and you're over a grand. Is it a rip off? Not really when you consider the cost to run a business and even barely make a profit.

It definitely pays to invest in an arsenal of tools and learn how to do things yourself.

[HAULIN IT]

$90 an hour...I can only dream of that kind of money. Was that used as an example or is that the going rate over your way? The labor rate is held to a tight $44 an hour here unless it's a specialty shop (repairing the new aluminum structure cars, specialty restoration, ect) & even the resto shops aren't getting that much.
 Guys, I won't get into the "whole bodyshop thing" at this point, but do you guys have any idea what the national average profit margin is in the autobody industry? Most good, efficient shops do not get into double digits (as in, less than 10%).
 You are correct, buy some tools & learn how to do it, it's one more thing in life you can say "I did that myself" & maybe do another one for someone else to off-set your hobby costs. Need help or advice... just ask, Lorne

[VileZambonie]

I have two friends who own body shops in CT. Notice they aren't helping me with any of my projects? lol I'd be broke in 2 weeks. Most body guys do side work around here for $30/hr

My buddy charges $89/hour and up for restoration work. With insurance companies his rate is much lower but obviously you know all about that being a body man. Insurance jobs vs restorations are two different animals.

[4x4orbust]

i did not mean to offend anyone that does body work and makes a living doing it,  i was not saying they are a rip-off.   simply stating i can buy a welder and attempt it myself. (i prefer to do my own work as well) 

i know the cost of doing business, (self employed carpenter)  whats a profit?   

[Jay2D2]

I finf it interesting that you say they charge lower for insurance work.  Where I'm from it the opposite, Jobs paid for by the customer are  done at a lower rate where as insurance jobs are charged max rates.

[HAULIN IT]

 Well you guys are going to get me started. There is no industry I've seen  like autobody repair (short of maybe healthcare, however it is more excepted). Now please understand...I'm not so much complaining, as I am informing, afterall...it has provided a reasonable living for me for over 20 years.
 There are MANY things "we" as a collective group of autobody shop owners do that doesn't make much sense, but for the most part are kinda trapped in one way or another.
 Jay, Your comments are interesting,  do you work in the home restoration business (fix up a building after a storm, fire, ect)? So in other words...you "discount" the price to the "customer" (which is who, buy the why? How much owner-only work do you do vs. insurance pay?) Think about it! I'm guessing the reason is because an individual is less likely to have the money to pay, so the cost is "discounted" Correct?
 Some shops I'm aware of charge a HIGHER rate to the car owner than the insurance companies if the owner is not using insurance, simply because the car owner can't control the cost like the insurance company does. Is this right?
 I look at it this way...McDonald's has a set price up on the board for their product, the price is the price. If you want it, you pay that price. Seems simple right? This is the way I do it, one price. There should be no discounts at all, to anyone.
 How often do you ask the lady at the grocery register to discount the steaks you buy? Why then can't a bodyshop owner go a day without having some potentail customer ask.."Can you help me with my deductible?" The car owner CHOOSE the deductible, saved money on their insurance premium, but expects the guy fixing the car to somehow fix the car & save them more money? Why? That's all for now! Lorne   
 
   

[Blazin]

X2 on the deductible deal!
I cut a break to older, or fixed income people. I also give a little if its a large job, such as a restoration as they are willing to spend that huge amount of money I figure give them a little something, vs. the guy that just wants a couple scratches fixed, or a dent, or just the rust but not the dents etc.

[Jay2D2]

I actually work in auto parts, Im a counter rep.  Im not sure if it works the same state side but here they have what they like to call the Right To Repair and what the basically is is that the customer can chose where to bring their car for insurance jobs and unless the quote is outrageous then the insurance goes with it.  Has for charging less to paying customers I dont really call it a discount... Just not charging them the max for every little thing... Kind of a Robin Hood Take From The Rich And Give To The Poor sort of thing.

Especially if its a good customer then youre going to want to cut them a bit of slack to thank them for their business.
Same in the auto parts game, good customers, like garages and such, get a discount. Just the way it works

[rustys82]

oops. what did i get started here. this must be a sensitive subject. haulin i was trying to demean the body shop guys. i am just blown away by the prices. where is beaver falls pa.

[HAULIN IT]

Rusty,

i was trying to demean the body shop guys. i am just blown away by the prices.

Why demean the bodyman, I don't understand?
No harm at all! I take the industry serious & spend a fair amount of time thinking, discussing, ect. in hopes that someone can see it from a different side, that's all. Beaver Falls is about 30 miles North-West of Pittsburgh...I'm about 10 miles from the Ohio line.
 Jay, Yes the car owner can choose where the vehicle is fixed, however often "encouraged" by the insurance company.

As for charging less to paying customers I dont really call it a discount... Just not charging them the max for every little thing... Kind of a Robin Hood Take From The Rich And Give To The Poor sort of thing.

Why not just charge each customer for what you do each & ever time regardless of who is paying? Why does that matter? Think of it this way a moment...McDonald's has a price, it's up on the board. You either pay that amount or you choose something else. It's simple enough, Right?

Kind of a Robin Hood Take From The Rich And Give To The Poor sort of thing.

 
 Not to get political, but isn't that the best case of socialism? Isn't that what you guys up North have for healthcare? Resemblance, Yes? Not for me please!

Especially if its a good customer then you're going to want to cut them a bit of slack to thank them for their business.
Same in the auto parts game, good customers, like garages and such, get a discount. Just the way it works

   
 Who is the "customer"? The bad driver who comes in once or twice a year. Can he/does he pay the entire bill himself? Most people don't, the average collision repair is about $2400, that's average. How about the $9000 repair (I've got at least one going all the time) or the BIG one $20,000? How about the insurance company that you fix several cars a day that they pay all/most of the bill? Are they a "customer"?
 The bodyman needs the insurance companies money, they pay the majority of the bill. It's basic business, they have the money, we need/want it.
 Now don't think I'm "All for the insurance man", it's just one part of the balancing act we do every day. That's all for another chapter, Lorne   

[SUX2BU99]

I think around here body shops and mechanics are in the $75-90 range. I remember not long ago it was $50/hr. We have government insurance though (ICBC) and I believe they tell the shops what they will get paid for certain repairs on insurance claims. If a car is in a wreck, it goes first to an ICBC claim centre where their own adjusters look it over and start a file. Then you take your car to whatever ICBC-approved shop you like and they are informed what is needed and will be paid that amount. Hidden damage that is discovered later also gets paid for by ICBC. Any body shop or body guy I know of seems to do alright for themselves.

As for health care up here in Canada, it's not exactly what the movie Sicko depicts. It's not totally 'free'. Do you worry about the bill when you go to the hospital? No. But, I pay $108 every month for what's called MSP (Medical Service Plan). That covers me, my wife and my daughter. I think it's $48/person for adults. Then I had to pay on top of that for my extended medical through work. In total it was about $160/month. Every adult in the province has to pay for MSP except those on Welfare I believe or if your employer pays it (some do). So sure it's a lot cheaper than medical insurance in the US, but it sure ain't free. We can head to Emergency whenever we need to, get treatment and walk out without paying a dime. Just take out your MSP card when you come in and that's it. Prescriptions of course are not free.

So Canadians do not have it totally free. Just wanted to clear that up. Don't fear a federal medicare system. It's not exactly what Ronald Reagan was scaring everybody about in that 50's record he produced about it being the first step to socialism.

[HAULIN IT]

Sux, So bodymen & mechanics make about the same...Seems logical. Just for fun, what does the average Electrician, Plumber, Carpenter (any regular ol' working with his hands man) get paid in comparison? Not really talking a worker's wages just yet, the amount that a customer would be charged on an invoice?  Now how does the worker of each of these trades fit in the scheme of things? The other thing we have to keep track of is the exchange rate, which at this point I know NOTHING about (the only time I got involved with that was when I've gone to Niagara Falls, usually got money back). Thanks, this is interesting stuff, Lorne

[SUX2BU99]

I could be way off but I believe most union trades guys are somewhere in the $25/hr range for pay. Master journeyman or whatever top dogs are called might be higher. I think they start out around $20/hr and go up from there to maybe $30/hr? I know when things were crazy good with the economy and all that around 2006-2007, a plumbing business owner I know hired an experienced plumber for $40/hr and he quit a day later to make $42/hr.    That wasn't union though I believe.