Alright, let's talk 700R4's

[SUX2BU99]

Okay so I'm close to pulling the trigger on a 700R4 to replace my perfectly-functioning, tight-shifting, 2nd-gear barking TH350 in my truck. I'd really like the shorter 1st gear and slightly shorter 2nd gear along with the great benefits of overdrive. This is what I found on a local craigslist:

Rebuilt 700R4 Automatic Transmission. 2WD. Professionally Rebuilt. B&M Shift Kit. High Energy 2-4 Band. High Energy 3-4 Frictions. Unbreakable Sun Gear Shell. Guaranteed. Core Required (Core charge $100.00). Fillertube, Detent Cable, Speedo Gears Extra if required.

I emailed him with some questions and got this back:

I have a 1988, a 1989, and a 1990.
They do not include a Torque Converter but I do have access to Rebuilt ones from TCS.
I build them to handle up to 400hp.
I do work full time at a Shop, but I Rebuild these Transmissions in my spare time at home.
I do have a Mechanic who has his own personal Shop in Chilliwack that would install it.
I would have to see your Truck to give you some sort of a Quote, but, I don't think he would charge more than $400.00.
The most important and challenging part is getting the Detent Cable properly installed and functioning PERFECTLY. 
Otherwise, the Transmission will Burn-up.


So, what do y'all think? I know 700R4's usually get a bad rap and they CAN be strong. Does this sound like it? My truck realistically doesn't make more than 350 HP.

[82k5diesel]

I have a built 700r4 in my 72 chevelle with a 400 plus hp sbc. The only drawback ive found is the big gap between 2nd and 3rd. Not bad for street drivin but on the strip have to raise the 2nd to 3rd shift point. The lower first gear helps get things movin off the line though.

[SUX2BU99]

Yes, that is something of a concern since the TH350 already has a bit of a larger gap between 2-3 than does 1-2 and the 700R4 has an even larger gap. Definitely a wide ratio tranny vs the 'closer' ratio TH350. Any more comments, please do so! What are the important parts to have 'built' in the 700R4?

[VileZambonie]

Sux where are you living now?

The sunshell is the weakest link. Servo update, pump mods, governor, and valve body are your necessities.

[82k5diesel]

Everything vile said is spot on. My 1 to 2 shift started to slip after about a year due to all the time at the track. I took it to a local hot rod guru and he changed all the bands to kevlar ones. Now no more delayed shifts.

[fitz]

How much is he charging for the tranny?
$400 seems high for an install.
He also says he has an 88,89,and a 90.
I thought in 89 GM started calling it the 4L60. I know it's basically the same trans as a 700R4, I just think a tranny expert should get it right.

[Captkaos]

They started calling the 700R4's 4L60's in 1990.  It is still the same identical transmission.
Most people call the non electronic versions 700R4's and the electronic ones 4L60E

[HAULIN IT]

Sux, The parts list sound good, however there is allways the assembly, clearances, ect. to go along with them. Built right, it should hold up fine. The tranny in my truck doesn't even have the good sun shell. I do know there are problems with them even in stock applications (we did put one in the new tranny though). I have thought either comming out of the waterbox or on the line it would let go, but it's been over 100 passes at well over 400 hp (about 420 at the wheels) on sticky tires.
 82k, The "big gap" is between first & second, the second to third is fairly close to the Th350 & TH400
 TH350
1st 2.52
2nd 1.52
3rd 1.00
   
 700/4L60
1st 3.06
2nd 1.62
3rd 1.00
4th   .70 
I've heard all about this, but fail to feel it in my truck. I have nothing to compare it to though since it has allways had the 700. With a smaller, peakier engine this additional 400 RPM or so drop could show up as a struggle for the engine.
 Sux, I'm not sure it will change the world, however I have no intentions of going to a three speed   Lorne   

[VileZambonie]

How many people call a 3L80 a TH400? A 700R4 is the exact same thing as a 4L60. To properly R&R a trans in one of these trucks pays 4.5 hours plus additional to replace the filter, flush the cooler, set up, adjust, road test etc. So if I charged book time at my full labor rate to R&R and flush cooler you'd be lookin at $450 in labor. I'm sure you can do better price wisw but he's realistically not far off the mark.

[82k5diesel]

My bad on the ratios thanks haulin! Been a while since i drove the chevelle, its been in body work limbo for the last year. The lower first gear and the overdrive were well worth the swap for me.

[fitz]

 How is the price on the tranny itself? One thing to keep in mind is that you are paying one guy to rebuild it and another gut to put it in. If you have a problem there may be allot of finger pointing going on.
I know some guys give great prices on there "side jobs" and they do great work, but if your not saving a lot of $$
I would look for one shop to do the complete job.

[Toolmaster]

I had the trans rebuilt last week in my 97 4x4 ext cab. Truck had 199860 miles on it. On the way home one night I felt a shudder while under a load ( up hill pull ). I called AAA and had it towed to his shop. 4 days later he called and it was ready to be picked up. Removed, Rebuilt and re-installed $1400.00. The sunshell had broken in hafe and some some other part had some wear. I got this truck new and have had the trans serviced every 10-15k. From what I have heard from others, this trans in this year model truck had some problems. My trans man told me he had only seen very few trucks make it this many miles with out a rebuild on the trans.
Now if it will just make it another 200k

[fitz]

$1400 sounds reasonable.I was just saying I would rather have 1 shop do all of the work(like you did), that way if there is a problem there is no one else to blame.

[SUX2BU99]

Thanks for all of the replies, guys.  Is there such a thing as an 'unbreakable' sun shell? And what are these 'high energy' bands? Is that a brand name?

Vile, I'll ask about those other parts you mentioned. And I'm on the Wet Coast of Canada, in BC

I'd imagine I would need the filler tube, detent cable and speedo gears that he mentioned would be extra. I'll ask him what an out the door price would be. Sounds like he should know what he's doing and what exactly would be required to swap a TH350 for a 700R4.

Lorne, yeah if a 700R4 can take the torque that Olds 455 of yours can dish out, than they can be built strong! I wonder what a B&M or other big-name 700R4 would cost....

[HAULIN IT]

Sux, NOTHING is unbreakable in a transmission, just some things are harder to break than others
 The high energy clutches are Olive colored & showed up as an improved material from GM when they re-named it to 4L60. That's what's in mine. Lorne