3 startups to run right??!!

[4x4orbust]

ok here's my newest dilemna.   1982 k-10.  355/ th350, quadrajet.    the first time i start the truck for the day, i have kind of a process that i have to follow.   here it is:  
1st-   press the accelerator a couple times
       turn key to start
       truck starts, stumbles, then dies

2nd-       truck starts, runs for a couple seconds, stumbles, then dies (pressing the gas will keep it running, but it stumbles kinda running rough almost like a misfire, and will not run right until you either shut the truck off, or let it die on its own)

3rd-      truck starts, runs,  smooths out,  runs perfect after 30 seconds, (on high idle, 1200 rpms)

what is going on?  i need some ideas on where to look,  

today i jumped in to plow,  got it started and running on the second startup,  but it was stumbling/ missing as described and idled at 600 rpms or less.  (off idle was fine)  i plowed mine and the neighbors (15 minutes), he came out to talk i shut the truck off for 1 minute.   when i started it back up ( which would be the 3rd time) it ran perfect, idled at 800 rpms, no stumbling/missing.  


i know i have a small vacuum leak in the cab (i hear it whistling slightly at 1000-1100 rpms, not at any other rpms) but i can't find it,  any ideas?  would this cause my problem?

i was thinking choke related, but when i start the truck, the choke pull off pretty much fully opens the choke plates, and i would think it would go away after 15 minutes of driving.  

[VileZambonie]

The choke shouldn't open right away. There lies your issue

[4x4orbust]

so it would be the pull off?    i know it's adjustable by the allen  screw in the back of it. i had tried when i put it on( brand new a month ago), but it always pulled the choke open.      anyone have a guide to adjusting it?

[Stewart G Griffin]

i'd like to step out on a limb and say that it's not the pulloff that is causing the choke to open all the way immediately after startup, but rather the choke coil is either no good or misadjusted.

[VileZambonie]

I'm going to agree with Stewie here.... The choke break is probably fine. Start out by checking the adjustment on the choke.

[4x4orbust]

the choke has never been adjusted, it still has the rivets in it.   which way do i turn it to get the flap to close?

before the truck starts, i tap the gas to close the choke, and the choke blades are closed, with a small gap (maybe 1/8") on the rear of the blades.   once started, the pull off opens them almost all the way.

[VileZambonie]

If the choke opens right away you probably have a bad choke coil

[Stewart G Griffin]

Sorry for the slow reply;  Work, you know.

If the rivets are still on, i'm assuming this is the original carb?  i'm pretty sure that to close it, or make it stay closed longer you turn counter-clockwise.  To richen, or let the choke flap open sooner, clockwise.  

Of course, the rivets will have to be drilled out, but the new choke coil kits are cheap and include new screws and flanges and it looks likely that the coil needs replacing.  Maybe to verify before getting a new kit, you could use duct tape or something after drillng out the rivets?

Also, to confuse the issue further (i ALWAYS DO THIS!!! ), is this carb computer controlled or not?   The reason why i ask is the 3 times thing?  i'm thinkng that after the 2nd time the engine should run right after leveling itself out after pedal intervention........

[jaredts]

If there's a E4ME on his '82 than that's the problem!  But seriously, a bad choke coil doesn't sound right, does it?  His choke closes when he taps the throttle, right?  Its only open an 1/8" when cold (about right), and he just changed the pulloff a month ago and isn't sure how to adjust it.  I could be wrong but it sounds like that's where he needs to look.

[Stewart G Griffin]

Well, i suppose it's possible that it could be the pulloff,   but what i'm saying is that the vacuum from the vacuum break pulloff is "overpowering" the force of the choke coil.  In other words, when the throttle is pressed down before startup, there is enough tension in the coil to snap the choke flap closed, but when the engine starts and runs , the vacuum from the vacuum break pulloff is making the flap open immediately after the engine starts.  Normally, the choke coil has enough tension to keep the flap closed while the engine is first started, then as it heats up it expands, thus allowing the flap to open more---the vacuum from the vacuum break is simultaneously working to open the flap etc, etc.

[4x4orbust]

pretty sure it's not computer controlled.   the engine was swapped in from a 305, the choke only has 1 wire going to it, and is keyed hot. 
stewart-  that is the best description i have gotten on how the pull-off works.   i think a light bulb just went on in my head and scared the bats out.   coil seems more and more to be the culprit.   i am going to be removing it tomorrow and getting a new coil.  we'll see if that helps.   
when installing the new coil, is there a way of setting it initially so it's close to being right?   i have never messed with carbs too much before this, although this is my second carbed truck.  i've usually had an older mechanic friend do it, but he recently passed, so it's on me now!!

[Stewart G Griffin]

As far as setting it initially to get in the ballpark, do you have a garage?  Especially a garage that can be heated to a certain extent?   i know it's probably freezing in mass, but the idea is to get the air temperature to about "room temperature"  very roughly 60-85 degrees (there may be some more leeway in this, but i'm too tired to read up on it now).  The engine must be cold, or should be anyways.

Rotate the choke coil cover, again i'm pretty sure counter-clockwise, until the flap just closes---no further tension.  And then, lock it into place for now.   You may want to experiment with the existing coil first before getting a new one maybe.  If you can't find any appropriate sized screws maybe you could use duct tape for now.

This should get you into the ballpark for now.  Actually, there is a little more to it to get it accurate--factory specs  but i'm getting very sleepy.

P.S.
a) i'm not even sure you need room temp if you're adjusting the choke for cold, starting, operation.

b) if your coil has the factory indicator notches on it, then this further complicates matters.

But i don't want to deal with either a or b right now because it's too late at night..........

[Stewart G Griffin]

Actually, let's forget about the "room temp" deal for now;   

a) it's been a year since i rebuilt my quadrajet, which i'm not even using now--long story will  discuss later, so i'm a little fuzzy on the choke adj.

b) my work schedule is erratic, thus i was "sleep impared."

i'll get back to you in a sec, but i think for now turning the coil counterclockwise until the flap just closes should get you in the ball park when adjusting a new coil.  With the existing coil now, you might try turning it more counterclockwise or even all the way counterclockwise may help the situation.

[4x4orbust]

went to buy a new choke coil today and looks like it has to be ordered, and take 3-5 days to come in (which i find odd, but whatever)    they also had a manual choke conversion there that i am starting to consider,  for $12 it's a lot cheaper.
   
before any of that though i am going to try and adjust the coil i have on there now.  i pressed the gas to close the choke, and left the key on to see if the choke moved at all under just the electric coil and after a couple minutes it was fully open,  so it seems to be working.   figure i might as well start cheap and work my way up from there.