Engine mounts. HELP!!!!!!!

[ITSANSS]

Have spent about four hours trying to get the new engine in.  It will not go in.  The transmission doesn't really line up and the engine mounts don't either.  Looked back on some pictures and realized the mounts were in the bottom holes instead of the top ones.  Got that took care of, but no help.  Is there a left and a right side for the engine mount clam shells (ones that attach to the block)?  The bolt holes are triangle so they can only go one way, but perhaps there is a left and a right?  I don't care if I've overlooked or have done the dumbest thing in the book, I just was this thing in.  If I don't get this figured out soon, I'm gonna' pull the transmission, too, and get those mated together outside the pick-up and try again.

I have NEVER EVER had this much trouble getting a new engine in.  ALWAYS have trouble pulling one out, but never going back in.  A little wiggle here and there and it's in.  This is not the case.  I have jumped up and down on top of the engine, shook the engine back and forth as hard and fast as I could trying to get something to give or make everything settle, pry-bar'd on several things, floor-jacked the transmission from several spots two dozen times, etc.

This has been the toughest engine swap, BY FAR, that I've ever done and it's on an extremely basic carbureted 1985 model pick-up truck (meaning, it should be stupid easy).  Please tell me the engine mount clam shells could be the culprit.

Thanks

[VileZambonie]

Spread the clamshells open more. They are probably squeezed in too tight. Support the trans with a block of wood and a floor jack. Get the engine into position and try to move the trans gradually into mating as you engage the mounts. You may need to shift it a little here or there but that's it. Take the night off and start again tomorrow.

[Blazin]

Over the years I have had some that just kicked my rearend. Once in a while you just get one that won't go easy no matter what. We had a 13 speed trans at the shop a few weeks back that no matter what, even with the three of us all working on it did not want to slide all the way into the clutch. Gave up on it, went back after lunch, and it went in with a little struggle but did go. Sometimes it just needs a fresh prospective on it after some away time.

[Lt.Del]

there is indeed a left hand and right hand engine mount...makes a difference. Also, ensure your engine mounts match the old ones.  I went to two places to get engine mounts in August before I went to NAPA to get the right ones....it was for my '91 sub but by the time NAPA looked at my old ones and matched them up with what they had, it ended up being like '86 engine mounts.  $11 each.  Autozone tried to give me some that were a tad too big.  These mounts all look similar, but look at them closely...different years the three holes don't match perfectly.  You must use your old mounts to match them up.  

I put my mounts in with the engine still in the truck.  It helps using a long metal bar to pry up and down and back and sideways and whatever until the long bolt goes in attaching the two halves.   Then lining up the three holes to go into the block takes some prying around.  Coat the mounts with oil too to help them slide inside the metal block part too. Using a bottle jack under the oil pan (with blocks of wood to protect the pan) helps a lot too to relieve the pressure/weight on the mounts.  

[ITSANSS]

Gonna' get a fresh start after work today.  Thanks for everything, ya'll.

I looked at the engine mounts (ones that go to frame rail) and they both have the same part number and I looked them over when I got them and compared to the old ones and they looked to be the same.  However, I didn't seriously look at them.

So there's no way it could be the clam shell engine mounts (ones that go to the block)?  I reckon I can separate those a little more to see if that helps.

Basically, the engine mounts are too far forward (to the front of the truck), but the flywheel and transmission are hitting.  Almost as if the transmission is too far forward.  This pick-up did move when the old engine came out.  We took everything out and apart and degreased everything and rolled it out of the garage and power washed it over and over and then pushed it back into the garage.  I drilled two small holes in the bottom of the firewall and supported the transmission with bailing wire to keep it from getting into a bind.  Is there any way the transmission could have come forward some while still being bolted at the cross-member?

Also, I'm using a lift plate for the first time ever putting this in.  That could be hurting me a little bit as it doesn't act the same as it does when hooked with a chain and bolted on either cylinder head with a couple bolts.

Also, these clam shell engine mounts (ones that go to the block) are off of a different pick-up.  I traded some with a friend, cleaned up, painted, and gave him back my old ones.  Surely they're all the same....?

Thanks again.  Off to work.   

[Grim 82]

I like to have the mounts off of the frame and on the motor before setting it in, keeping the long thru-bolts in, but loose until you get the 6 mount bolts tight. This is all from memory, but the clamshells have extra tabs with holes for mounting the rod braces that go to the trans dust cover. These extra tabs & holes should be towards the back of the engine. From there put the mounts in the clamshells but left & right are different. The lower mount to frame bolt holes are offset from each other.
Disregard the blue arrow. The red one shows the offset hole.

[Lt.Del]

read my post again....there are different mounts in these trucks....they are even different within the same year!  I had to go to 3 different places to match mine up...they kept giving me a set that look similar, but, the holes where a tad off.  That's why i said take the old mounts to the parts store with you.  I argued over one of the salesmen.  He said they would bolt up no problem even if the hole is offset compared to my old set. I knew better. 
Now, i guess it is possible the India manufacturer could have gotten the template messed up during manufacturing or something.  But I found a pair made in Mexico that worked.   

[ITSANSS]

Okie dok.  I'm just gonna' pull the engine back out and check over the mounts very carefully.

Man, this is frustrating!!  Also, I said before that this is the hardest time I've ever had putting an engine in, this is also the first time I've put in an engine without using the same clamshells and mounts that came out.  Doing this one "right" by replacing them for new and it screwed me.  lol

Thanks again.  I'll let ya'll know.

[ITSANSS]

Took engine back out, removed engine mounts from frame rails.

Mounts appear to be identical to old ones.  Went to friend's house and got original mounts that to go block and they are identical, also.

Bolted the mounts that go to frame rails to the block mounts and lowered the engine in.  The transmission looked to be lining up very well, but the mounts were an inch or two too far to the front of the pick-up.  Decided to try to push it backward some.  Looked like the flywheel was getting into the transmission so jacked transmission up a tad when all at once the engine came free from the transmission and the engine fell through the hole and snapped off the oil pressure sending unit.

Parts store doesn't have oil pressure sending unit that I have (refer to other thread).  So, now I'm gonna' eat and await ya'll's reply because I'm at a total loss right now.  It's looking more and more like it needs to be put on a trailer and taken to a professional.  The constant in and out and jockeying of the engine and transmission, there won't be anything left of the truck, engine, transmission soon at the rate it's going.

Thanks

[HAULIN IT]

Sorry to disagree Del, but there is no Right & Left mounts or clam shells. Did the guys in India or Bangladesh make some that are "out of spec"?...sure I'll believe that, however GM did not make ones for different sides, years ect. The difference in the size of some of the A/M ones is why Vile mentioned to spread them a bit, however it sounds like by his description he's not even that close yet for some reason.
 To the original poster...What exactly is hitting between the engine & the trans? The back of the block & the bell housing or the flexplate & the converter? Are you sure the converter is in ALL the way? Double check it! Rotate...clunk, rotate...clunk. When the bell housing & the engine are touching you should be able to reach up & spin the converter...if not, it's not in the front pump. Good Luck, Lorne

[ITSANSS]

After about 12 hours of pulling the engine in and out, cussing, dropping tools, dropping bolts, looking for flashlights, cussing, jerking the engine back and forth, jacking the transmission up and down, cussing, jumping up and down on the engine, drinking a beer, getting cuts and bruises - the engine and transmission ARE NOW IN.

The mounts, frame rail and block pieces looked identical to old ones.  Only difference between yesterday and today is that the oil pressure sending unit is destroyed and that we bolted the frame rail mounts to the engine and then set the whole thing in.  I'm assuming it was just luck, but bolting the mounts to the engine could've had something to do with it, too.  At this point, I don't care, as long as it's in.  Haha  However, putting it in took a toll.  Lots of paint got scratched, oil pressure sending unit got destroyed, transmission dipstick has a kink in it, transmission dipstick tube is crushed in several places, not to mention that I am physically exhausted.  My whole body aches.  I've literally never had this much trouble with putting in an engine and have never witnessed anyone else have this much trouble.  Every aspect of this project has fought every step of the way.

I reckon tomorrow I'll check out some places that are open on Saturdays to see if they have a "Y" that'll work for the oil pressure sensors.  That is what's holding things up now.  Gotta' do that to be able to do the distributor, gotta' do the distributor to do the flywheel/torque converter, etc. etc.

What a day.

Thanks, ya'll

[VileZambonie]

I'm confused, were you trying to bolt the mounts to the frame attached to the engine or trying to drop the engine onto the mounts? 

The mounts and the clamshells are the same L&R year to year.

[ITSANSS]

I'm confused, were you trying to bolt the mounts to the frame attached to the engine or trying to drop the engine onto the mounts? 

The mounts and the clamshells are the same L&R year to year.

Originally I had the block mounts bolted to the block and the frame mounts bolted to the frame and tried to drop the engine down onto them, like I have on all the other engines I've done and seen done.  However, the way we finally got it to work was by doing it the "Grim 82" way by bolting the block mounts to the block and bolting the frame mounts to the block mounts, keeping the long bolt and nut that goes through loose.  Took some doing, of course, but it went in!  Haha  I've never seen or even heard of doing it this way, but it worked for me.

I better get out to the garage before my whole Saturday is gone.   

Thanks again!!

[Lt.Del]

glad you got it done, whatever works.  I never heard it done that way either.

As far as parts being being different or the same or whatever, according to part #'s etc...on my 3 visits to different parts stores, part #'s were diff depending on year of truck, when NAPA pulled out their first set for my 91 and they were diff from my old ones, he plugged in "85 or 87" (i dont remember which) for a year and the part # was diff from 91 set and the part itself was diff and they matched what I had.  It could be where they were made...Mexico vs. India, but why would the part #'s be diff dependng on year?  I dunno. I'm no expert on this, but know what i went thru.  Autozone couldn't match my old set at all.  The 3 holes too far apart.

Left vs. right, i remember the tab on the back end of the mounts on my old ones ones before i took them off.  Had the two mounts been the same part #, upon installation, one would have the tab in rear, the other the tab in the front by the time you put the mount on the other side of the engine.  On my truck, the tabs were both in the rear.
I dunno.  Just speakin from sperience here from two months ago when I had to do it.  

[VileZambonie]

SgtDel,

I've run into that before as well with Autozone. It's a catalog error with the R/V series listing.

1973 K10 5.7L Suburban motor mount Part #: 2292

1986 K10 5.7L Suburban motor mount Part #: 2292

1987-1991 V10 They list Part #: 2637

1988 up C/K They list Part #: 2637

So the mounts are the same they just have their listings wrong and most of the turkeys that work there have no clue.

2292 mount vs 2637 mount