new hampshire senate/house of reps

[project85]

Is there anyone on here from NH that works in NH? Are you in a union, fire, police, teacher, state worker? The senate made a bill that I believe the house amended that will do away with collective bargaining all together in NH. This is what happened in wisconsin and other out west states. I'm a firefighter, and after 5years of duty the house/senate is dramaticaLly changing my retirement and now will basically desolve my union contract with my town. This is a really big deal for everyone in the state. This was done in a NON-PUBLIC SESSION. I am hoping there is some political types on here from NH that will read this and understand the severity of what is going on, and call your senator or house rep and tell them how you feel.

Sorry for the soap box. Thank you for your time
Bill

[thirsty]

No comment on that.

I will tell you that I am not a fan of the union that I was in. I believe they are out for themselves financially, politically motivated, and did not do right by the people that they were supposed to be standing behind. I know that there must be good unions and your point was about pensions and benefits.

Ok maybe one comment but I would rather leave my political views off this forum. I think that any existing contracts should be honored and then new employees should have a contract that spells out the new pension and benefit policies.

[1980c10]

Their are excellant arguents for both sides of this argument.
Ultimately it should come down weather the workers have the right to unionize or not (based on the constitution)and not so much the consequences of that decision.

[VileZambonie]

It has been my feeling that people need to spend as much time sacrificing in their lives to better themselves to the point where they are non reliant on unions, the government, or any other power to control their income and their futures. In fact I know I work much harder and longer hours than any union worker I know, yet I have no pension, paid sick days, maximum benefits, etc etc. The more I want the harder I have to work. I think that's how it should be for everyone. I've been working full time since I was 16, put myself through school and have been paying my own way ever since. I was raised by my mother who came here from Italy not knowing a word of English, worked her tail off and still does to this day. I think unions are unfair and promote greed. Sorry - not a union fan.

[Blazin]

I am sorry this affects you in a negative way but I am with vile on this.
Unions did allot of good when they were first established, they helped keep the little man from being abused, and exploited by the wealthy business owners etc. Now they are the ones that are abusing the power they have, and exploiting for their own financial gain.

[Lt.Del]

I believe in what Vile and Thirsty say.  I hate unions--if one wants better pay, get a better education or get skilled in a lucrative occupation. However, once someone has spent 20 years in a profession, as I have as a deputy sheriff, and have worked in the same place because of the pension benefit--which is the only reason i am there and have been there for two decades, it is unfair to wipe that all away.  This pension is state law and was the agreement when I began working there. Hence, I will have wasted 20 years of my life with a simple law change if they choose.  I am educated and could have been making more money elsewhere in the private sector and contributed heavily in a 401k, but, because of the lower salary today, I cannot contribute as much as I'd like and raise a family.  So, I count on my pension. I am in it for the money I will receive after retirement. To keep good workers on board, the benefits need to be there.  Take those benefits away and your quality of workers go down the tubes.  
We have no union.  As an appointed deputy by a constitutional officer, sheriff, I am not employed, but, appointed.  We have no right in Va for unionizing in my line of work.  Let me keep what I have been promised for 20 yrs and I'm fine and won't care one bit.  That is why I am doing what I am doing.    

[project85]

right now our biggest problem is they want to
1. change the retirement system, so change the promise they made to us the day we took our jobs (firefighter and police)
2. by taking the right to have a collective bargain unit in NH. unitil is a has a CBA, that would mean they could like our town, fire a person and hire someone for half price. we would have no more rights then a 16 y/o pumping gas. which is crazy to me. there would be no more unions period in NH. if the patriots were in NH the players would have to decertify like they did, but the state wouldn't alow it. this is gonna mess up our school systems. teachers will be in the same position we are being put in. all of this has been done in a non-public session by newly seated politicians that have been in office for 3 months. it took them 6 minutes to take collective bargaining away from 60,000 workers.

i understand the not being big on unions. i wasn't until i became a firefighter. but union workers are middle class people. something like this is an attack on working middle class people. i'm bias because i could possibly lose my job in the next few months to someone willing to work for half price. which is a big problem in this country aka all these companies moving to mexico.

also we tried to change the retirement rules for only new hires coming through the door and increase our current employee contribution from 9.3% to 11.8% and the senate/house still wanted these changes.

as far as sacrificing to better themselves that is exactly what i am getting at. i personally, went to school for 1 year off and on to get my firefighting stuff done, then went to school for 18months to become a paramedic. i've worked my job full time for 5 years, now when the state allows the union busting, the town manager/selectman in our town can hire someone with less qualifications to do the work for half price, or i must take a huge pay cut to keep a job i love, and the people who will suffer the most will be the unknowing public that is getting screwed. plus we have guys with 20 years of service who must now retire early and are being forced out due to how bad the system is gonna be changed.

again sorry for the rant.

[Lt.Del]

unions were important at one point in history. However, since congress stepped in and passed such things as the 40 hour work week and OSHA and FLSA (Federal Labor Standards ACts) ect...the only thing unions do is push jobs overseas.  If your employer is unsafe or abusing power and neglecting FLSA, well, in every city there are attorneys that specialize in punitive rewards against employers.  Unions have no purpose.  
If you are a public servant, your jurisdiction will not pay people minimum wage, becasue they dont want to spend $40,000 training you for you to leave tomorrow to work at McDonalds.  Jurisdictions know that they must pay accordingly so as not to have such a high turnover rate more money goes to training fire, police, etc  or have poor workers where lawsuits of millions are constantly paid out. That's why we have had enticing pensions...to keep people there more than 5 years. The longer one works there, the more of a pension they have---they dont have to be trained again and again like new employees would.

It's called free market.

However, as I posted earlier, you cannot renig on what has been in writing a benefit to a 20 year veteran of the force. We are not there for our day to day salary.  We are there because of tomorrow's check after retirement.  

[project85]

I believe in what Vile and Thirsty say.  I hate unions--if one wants better pay, get a better education or get skilled in a lucrative occupation. However, once someone has spent 20 years in a profession, as I have as a deputy sheriff, and have worked in the same place because of the pension benefit--which is the only reason i am there and have been there for two decades, it is unfair to wipe that all away.  This pension is state law and was the agreement when I began working there. Hence, I will have wasted 20 years of my life with a simple law change if they choose.  I am educated and could have been making more money elsewhere in the private sector and contributed heavily in a 401k, but, because of the lower salary today, I cannot contribute as much as I'd like and raise a family.  So, I count on my pension. I am in it for the money I will receive after retirement. To keep good workers on board, the benefits need to be there.  Take those benefits away and your quality of workers go down the tubes.  
We have no union.  As an appointed deputy by a constitutional officer, sheriff, I am not employed, but, appointed.  We have no right in Va for unionizing in my line of work.  Let me keep what I have been promised for 20 yrs and I'm fine and won't care one bit.  That is why I am doing what I am doing.    

i left a good land surveying gig to become a firefighter, to help people and because it had a great retirement. now 5 years later they want to completly change what i was told my first day on the job. losing the collective bargaining agreement isn't the same as just having a union. if the state takes the CBA away, it will be just like you said you will get a lower quality of person doing the work for less money, we in NH are concerned with public saftey, aka fire, police, highway/state workers, plus the teachers teaching our kids. it is just most CBA are with unions. if they remove our collective bargaining rights i will still be in my local union and our international union, it won't mean much.

[project85]

I am sorry this affects you in a negative way but I am with vile on this.
Unions did allot of good when they were first established, they helped keep the little man from being abused, and exploited by the wealthy business owners etc. Now they are the ones that are abusing the power they have, and exploiting for their own financial gain.

i can kinda agree but, i don't think our fire unions abuse any power. we definetly look out for ourselves and try to better our proffession. but when i was land surveying the state land surveying board were doing things to keep the exclusiveness of becoming a licensed land surveyor. they worked to better there own profession and to increase the wages of land surveyors. there is still no land surveying union but they do do some of the same types of things.

[78 Chevyrado]

Growing up in a union household, CWA local whichever in norcross ga, I can say from that that they took my dads dues and never not once paid him when they were supposed to.  he picketed one time for 3 months straight and we never got a dime they were supposed to pay us, but you MUST picket, which means a part time job at best and God forbid you try to cross the picket line to feed your starving family because they will bash your car to pieces, snatch you out of it and beat you with chains.  I saw that when I was four.  My dad talked me into joining when I was like 16 and I didn't see one benefit the whole time, except one time the paychecks were 7 hours late, and the instant they were late, we stopped work and got paid DOUBLE-Time until they arrived.  I liked the money there, but something just seemed wrong about that.  I quit the job because I hated the Jerks I had to work with, it's like because your a journeyman your better than me.  well, they ain't and I aint getting treated like that for those meager benefits.  So yesa, I can say I hate CWA and I've earned that right.  I just hope the firefighters unions don't work just like CWA does....  God help you if they do man.  

Also about  5 years ago they took my dads retirement, (he'd been there 35 years) and told him they were cutting it down to 1/4 what they said or he could take $40k and retire early.

As far as I can tell, if you want a retirement, you need to do it on your own with stocks or etc.  because ANY entity out there can offer you a retirement and change their minds later whenever it suits them.

Right now in one of the GA state workers unions, they changed it to where when the retiree dies, instead of his widow getting the rest of his earned entitled to retirement, they take it and put it back in the state coffers.  

Unions have outlived their usefulness and I'll tell you why, its because now we're in the age of entitlement, (I'm NOT saying this is you)  and those people have wrung the system dry.

The idea of unions is GREAT, the implementation has much to be desired though.  It's run by men, so it's only a matter of time anyway.

I wish you Good Luck with it!

[VileZambonie]

I think if you had a contract stating you should get ABC XYZ then they should honor that. If they're not it's time to file a class action lawsuit. I think most of us here on this site represent middle class working people otherwise this would be a Lamborghini website. Maybe now is a good time to reconsider serving as a fireman, there are many other jobs/careers that will help people and maybe even on a much higher level for you but to be honest you shouldn't choose your profession based on a promise of a retirement pension.

[Lt.Del]

quite a heated topic 

As far as I can tell, if you want a retirement, you need to do it on your own with stocks or etc.  because ANY entity out there can offer you a retirement and change their minds later whenever it suits them

The VRS, Va. Retirement System, does just that.  All public employees who subscribe to the VRS, as part of our benefit, gets a percentage of our salary taken out and put into stocks, bonds, etc...The VRS has done so well over the years and is the only thing that hasn't been destroyed by policitians, that, now, it is being destroyed by politicians...by them dipping their hands in this fund to fund other projects within the state.  Our governor just took $500 million from our (teachers, police, fire, DOT, etcl) retirements to spend on luring businesses here to benefit the private sector.  That is our retirement he just dipped his hands into.  Why are teachers, police and fire paying more than their share to finance a gamble to lure other employers here?  The governor does not have to pay back our retirement fund.  That is simply not right. 

[VileZambonie]

quite a heated topic 

Did I miss something? As long as everyone is respectful to each other when voicing their thoughts this thread isn't a problem.

[project85]

the state just took 89million out of our retiree insurance fund to help some other fund. and in the NHRS our money is put into money markets and such. the states is messing with our retirement not our unions. our unions are fighting for the workers about to lose what they were promised.