Timing issue: Stumped...

[kmcbride74]

Background/context: Just put in my rebuilt 350, mild cam, headers, edelbrock carb, etc.  I have the HEI distributor with the coil ontop.  I put the engine at tdc.  verified this via the mark on the harmonic balancer and *gently* put a screwdriver in the number one cylinder to verify.  Put the distributor in ensuring that the key for the oil pump shaft lined up and that the rotor was pointing to the lead for the number one cylinder.  After some tweaking of the positioning of the distributor, the engine runs, but it idles rough.

The Cam I have said start at 14 degrees btdc.  I painted a white line on the tdc mark on the harmonic balancer which is chevy orange.

Connected my timing light to the battery and the number one cylinder plug wire.  Started engine.  Turned on light.  It strobes.  I can read writing on the belts, but I cannot see my tdc mark anywhere near the timing gauge on the timing cover.

Clearly it is not off by that much or it wouldnt even run!  I've tried 2 different timing lights.  Still cannot see the timing mark.  What am I missing here guys?

Thanks in advance!
Kurt

[VileZambonie]

Are you sure you're on #1 and not #2? Which bank are you on Driver or passenger? Double check the firing order. Did you cross 5 & 7?

[kmcbride74]

Are you sure you're on #1 and not #2? Which bank are you on Driver or passenger? Double check the firing order. Did you cross 5 & 7?

Driver's side, front-most cylinder, I wired it like this: http://www.classiccarauto.com/impala/how_to/images/distributor.png

[VileZambonie]

Double check you didn't cross any wires.

[1980c10]

You could have also ended up a tooth off on your dist., But do check your wiring first.

[Grim 82]

Check the previously mentioned things first, but additionally, have you tried turning the distributor while watching for the mark with the timing light while it's running? It will run with your timing so advanced that you can't easily see the mark.

[1979C20]

Also  make sure you number 1 piston is tdc compression. That is very important. it will run 180° off if you have it advance/retarded enough. So, when checking for tdc, put your finger on the sparj plug hole and when its on its compression stroke it will push air out of the hole. When you feel air, bring your piston all the way to the top. The mark on the balancer WILL line up on both the compression and the exhaust/intake stroke.

[1979C20]

This may help too.  http://forum.73-87chevytrucks.com/smforum/index.php?topic=20821.msg169907#msg169907

[kmcbride74]

Okay, last night, I did the following.  It will not fire at all now...

1) Put the engine at 14 degrees btdc
2) Pulled cap, rotor was just about 180 off from tdc
3) Pulled distributor, spun the rotor such that the metal contact on it was pointing to #1 contact on the cap
4) Reinstalled cap
5) Pulled all other wires, reconnected them to the proper contacts on cap

Weird.....

Question: In this picture, the metal contact should point to #1 lead on cap when #1 cylinder is in firing position, right?

[Lt.Del]

Question: In this picture, the metal contact should point to #1 lead on cap when #1 cylinder is in firing position, right?

you want the #1 to fire when #1 is TDC, correct.  

The firing order should be  1-8-4-3-6-5-7-2.
left bank: 1-3-5-7 and right bank: 2-4-6-8.

what year is your vehicle?  It's not TBI is it? do you have vacuum advance?

remember, the actual position of where the order starts on the cap is not important.--it doesnt have to look like the pic you provided.  #1 can be towards the firewall if desired, but the order is important, wherever #1 starts on the distributor, the order must be followed.  #1 can be anywhere on the cap, as long as it points to the #1 plug wire when #1 is TDC on fire stroke.  In other words, when i drop a distributor in, i usually strip all plug wires off the cap.  Get #1 piston at TDC, then place #1 plug wire on cap point where rotor points---so #1 will fire. Then place the rest of wires in order.

Pulled distributor, spun the rotor such that the metal contact on it was pointing to #1 contact on the cap

I wouldn't pull the distributor to match the rotor with the plug wire, i'd match the plug wire with the rotor.  No need to pull the distributor.

I hope you broke in the cam correctly, even though it didn't idle correctly initially.

if it is tbi: http://forum.73-87chevytrucks.com/smforum/index.php?topic=9232.0

[kmcbride74]

Question: In this picture, the metal contact should point to #1 lead on cap when #1 cylinder is in firing position, right?

you want the #1 to fire when #1 is TDC, correct.  

The firing order should be  1-8-4-3-6-5-7-2.
left bank: 1-3-5-7 and right bank: 2-4-6-8.

what year is your vehicle?

KURT: 1985

It's not TBI is it?

KURT: No, it is not TBI, straight carb

do you have vacuum advance?

KURT: Yes, on the distributor

remember, the actual position of where the order starts on the cap is not important.--it doesnt have to look like the pic you provided.  #1 can be towards the firewall if desired, but the order is important, wherever #1 starts on the distributor, the order must be followed.  #1 can be anywhere on the cap, as long as it points to the #1 plug wire when #1 is TDC on fire stroke.  In other words, when i drop a distributor in, i usually strip all plug wires off the cap.  Get #1 piston at TDC, then place #1 plug wire on cap point where rotor points---so #1 will fire. Then place the rest of wires in order.

KURT: This is exactly what I did.

Pulled distributor, spun the rotor such that the metal contact on it was pointing to #1 contact on the cap

I wouldn't pull the distributor to match the rotor with the plug wire, i'd match the plug wire with the rotor.  No need to pull the distributor.

I hope you broke in the cam correctly, even though it didn't idle correctly initially.

if it is tbi: http://forum.73-87chevytrucks.com/smforum/index.php?topic=9232.0

[Lt.Del]

good, now, it has vacuum advance.  did you unhook the vacuum advance and plug the vacuum with a golf tee or something when checking timing?

[kmcbride74]

good, now, it has vacuum advance.  did you unhook the vacuum advance and plug the vacuum with a golf tee or something when checking timing?

when I had it running, yes.  At this point, the engine will not even fire

[kmcbride74]

btw, additional data point, turned it over with timing light on #1, and it is getting spark, at least to number 1

[Lt.Del]

i'd suggest it is 180 off, meaning the #1 tdc may be tdc on exhaust stroke.  I'd try this:

Pull your #1 wire off cap and put where #6 is.  Then follow #1 with proper firing order.

if that doesnt work, and you are certain you are getting spark and certain #1 is at tdc when rotor point generally towards #1, I'd look at the fuel delivery and/or carb adjustment / vacuum leak.