my 77 4x4 rebuild

[Greybeard]

The Rhino dealer that was close by was actually a company that built ambulances and the lining was just a regretful sideline for them so they ultimately shut out the public and now only shoot the undersides and interiors of the storage bays with it. It could have been a nice way for the company to diversify but they chose not to. Now the nearest bedliner places only serve up Line-X cold. It was an OK liner but not nearly as nice as the Rhino (at least back in the 90's). I have no recent knowledge of the changes or improvements it may undergone in mean time however.

There are so many different coatings available these days. I'll still use my old favorite- Rubberized undercoat from Napa in a rattle can. Cheap, easy, when it wears off just power wash and spray some more on. That's only on the outer-body rocker panels however. In the bed IDK?

Waiting patiently for more updates and good pictures of the truck in progress...

[winky]

ive learned from my use that in the bed you need a really tough liner. the finish master that we use is hard as a rock (the inside of my truck is sprayed with it for easy cleaning) but with that being said it does not grip anything like a rubberized liner they make bed liner with Kevlar and all that good stuff in it now days so you can get the best of both words.

photo bucket isnt wanting to work right now. here is pretty much the bed finished.. it might be too much black we will have to see once its on the truck

[winky]

HERE WE GO! lol I was pretty excited today. I got a decent bit done this week especially with how busy we were at work. the paint isnt the best... but hey its a mud truck (paint cost: $30 + bedliner) the top half of the truck turned out great and then something happened... not sure what but i couldn't get the same pattern after that. im going to investigate and figure out why and ill probably re paint it once i scratch it up pretty good

Sanded ready for paint. we did a QUICK 5 minute tape up on her with whatever was laying in the floor (keep from wasting shop materials)



painted gray. i used the gray kind of like a sealer so i wouldn't have different color panels



lost my painted picture i had. here is a close up of the top half



bed on.


And there she is!



I still have a lot of work to do (always room for improvement)
Hopefully next week i can weld on the new spring perches to correct pinion angle and bring my springs out where they should be (1 ton 14 bolt spring pads are 3/4" closer than the 1/2 ton)
i Need to cut the floor up and weld some of it up to finish my twin stick install
get my dash in and make sure everything functions
Then wiring! going to start on the dual battery's and installing some of the LED light bars
Last but not Least build a back bumper to match the front

Spring perch kit

[Greybeard]

Lookin good! It's amazing how your tires morph back and forth. LOL.

How do you expect to set the pinion angle? Are you going to leave it a little low to compensate for spring wrap (and keep angles equal), keep it straight at street ride height or maybe a different thought?

Way back on my other truck used a Trail Master kit to control spring wrap, I see thee something similar sold these days and it looks much better than the early one I had (mine was way to weak for big tires) but when it wasn't broken it worked great. I was wondering if you were thinking of doing something to control spring wrap?

[winky]

I'm still deciding. What would you do? And I thought about latter bars

- I'm Mobile!

[bake74]

     Truck is looking good, and it being as high as it is and used for mudding a set of ladder bars would not be a bad idea to keep the axle wrap down.

[87V20Kansan]

Looking good! Ladder bars for sure.

[winky]

ok, i have been reading for the last few hours... Ive seen that most people only use one ladder bar. they normally place that bar on the passenger side to help with counter steering? Ive also learned that i need to have a shackle and a point where it can rotate to prevent binding.
While reading i learned one of the most common problems with the 14 bolt (i sure most other axles as well) is that when adding a ladder bar the stress placed on that side of the axle tends to crack/break the plug welds on the axle tubes. So plan on adding an axle truss.

The questions i have so far...
~How long does my ladder bar need to be? i kept reading and most people said make it as long as possible.
~Can i put ladder bars on both sides of the axles ?
~The ladder bars are suppose to be parallel to the frame? i have 6" of spring lift how would i accomplish this? build a drop cross-member for the bars to mount too?
~does the shackle need to be straight up and down when i install them?
i would really love to have a concrete floor... its hard dragging a welder threw dirt and gravel

[Greybeard]

All good questions. None of which I have personal knowledge of the answers. Like you, I have read about a few different configurations. I had the Trailmaster type years ago and the new ones are built much better but are similar. They are something a good welder can do at home.
 The way the ones I had were designed was there was a plate attached over the top spring plate and over the u-bolt nuts . The top was extended up so it was level with the top of the front spring shackle. There was a 'L' bracket at the front with the vertical face pointing to the rear. Then there was a bushed adjustable length bar between them. The problem with this design, although it worked great and didn't limit travel was that there was no flex other than the bushings. This caused the threaded end at the front to break from bending to much. I believe this could be eliminated by using a shackle system in the front. However, the ladder bar systems sold as one piece units do the same and with less fuss. The bar is sold as a single (probably due to manufacturing economics) but I see no reason why two could not be made to fit a center diff setup like the 14 bolt. I really don't see anything less than 800 hp breaking the welds on a 14 bolt though. Maybe I'm wrong. Dunno.

I think one company at least tried putting two double acting shocks horizontally at one point, I don't think they panned out with any real control though.

I saw on TV a few weeks ago on Mav TV an install of a nice ladder bar. It looked just like this one by ORD. http://www.offroaddesign.com/catalog/traction%20bar%20installed1.jpg  It requires the extra cross member. But the transfer case cross member would work too. I feel a heim joint at the front would work better for a lifted truck that actually uses the flex in the suspension.  Using shackles always seems to be the key at the front.

[winky]

My concern with breaking the welds isn't my horsepower. Its my torque. I can see my self dumping the clutch in low gear while trying to pull something heavy. 39.5 tires don't help lol that ladder bar would hold one axle tube still and let the pumpkin take all the stress. I may just be over thinking things. I just like to over build rather than to under build

- I'm Mobile!

[87V20Kansan]

The "parallel with the frame" is key in the longitudinal dimension. Meaning that it should run straight with the frame from the front to the back. That way as the axle is put through suspension cycles it doesn't bind. Parallel to the frame from the horizontal , or side view is not really as important in this instance as you are not drag racing. If you were then there is a lot more geometry you would need to pay attention to. (Instant center, Anti-squat %, etc..) All you are trying to accomplish is defend against axle wrap under high load. Adding that bar will control the tendency of the axle wanting to rotate and bend the springs into an "S" shape as the ring tries to climb the pinion gear. I would do a pair myself, but I like symmetry! One well built bar will do the job. Also I would weld the axle tubes to the diff housing. Spend the money on good Heim joints for the front attachment point, specifically high flex "Johnny joints" so the bars can rotate with the housing during articulation.

[winky]

I was looking at the cent bar on a 3 point hitch as a heim joint

- I'm Mobile!

[winky]

http://www.farmandfleet.com/products/471072-double-hh-category-0-top-link.html?utm_medium=shoppingengine&utm_source=googlebase&gclid=CJSS0vuk9bwCFVRo7AodrU4AVw#.UxPk7oWwUvo
those are what i was going to use for the heim joints. i did a ROUGH sketch of the cross member and ladder bars i would appreciate any input

[bake74]

http://www.farmandfleet.com/products/471072-double-hh-category-0-top-link.html?utm_medium=shoppingengine&utm_source=googlebase&gclid=CJSS0vuk9bwCFVRo7AodrU4AVw#.UxPk7oWwUvo
those are what i was going to use for the heim joints. i did a ROUGH sketch of the cross member and ladder bars i would appreciate any input

     This would work under slow speed acceleration.  If I remember right you are using this as a mud truck, which means high speed and quick acceleration.  I would be worried with how much the shackle in the front would take all the abuse.
     Not that with the correct type of heim joints it would take all kinds of abuse.  I have to agree with 87V20Kansan, defiantly weld to the axle tube.
     I am just used to making a single mounting point in the front with a good heim joint instead of a shackle type, keeps movement to a minimal.

[Engineer]

Moar pics!