Wheels turn more one way than the other.(UPDATED)

[berserk]

I have a 76 k10 4x4 and after installing a new engine etc I removed the 4" lift kit and started driving it. I quickly noticed it turned more left than right, and the steering wheel was not centered. I know this can be a common problem after a truck has been lifted and have searched endlessly for the fix.

I finally put it in my garage and went to work, here are some of the common fixes suggested by the forum and why I found they would not work.

Pull the pitman arm center the box and reinstall
Pull the link from the steering column center box reinstall
Pull steering wheel center box reinstall straight
Adjust drag link and or tie rods

Ok, I started with the steering wheel as it was gassing and coming apart in my hands. It was replaced it with a grant and like I already knew from a previous k10 the horn button protrusion only allows it to be installed one way, off center
.
I needed to replace a seal in my steering box so I removed it and found in the process that the link from the column to box is keyed and can only be installed one way, off center
.
I removed the pitman arm and it was also keyed and could only be installed one way so it was also a no go.

After replacing the seal and installing the box back in the truck I looked at the drag link and tie rods.  As you may know on a 4x4 there is one tie rod to adjust toe and then the drag link. Previously my truck turned way more left than right. Well after adjusting the drag link to center the steering wheel it has flipped. Meaning it now turns way more right than left.
I like this better as right turns are always sharper, especially if I am pulling a trailer but as you can imagine I would love to have my steering wheel and turning radius straight and equal.

My dad also has a square, his is an 84 K10 that I used to own. It had a 4 inch lift as well I installed in my youth and recently removed for him to crawl in easier. It ALSO has the exact same problem. I know for a fact I changed nothing in the steering when I installed it and it wasn't a redneck lift meaning I had 4 inch lift springs up front with a drop steering arm. Do any of these 4x4's have centered steering? lol

Please help me if I have over looked anything obvious, or if you have any other suggestion, as I see it right now I am stuck with the problem.

 

[Blazin]

Only fix I have ever done to correct steering to be equal is in the drag link.

[VileZambonie]

Point the wheels straight ahead. Completely remove the drag link. Find the center of the gear box, count turns left to right and put it dead on center. If your wheel is off then someone installed the wheel incorrectly and you will need to fix it. Index straight ahead with a piece of tape if it's off so you can use that as your center point and you can fix that after. With the wheel centered from left to right and the tires pointed straight ahead adjust the drag link to the correct length by turning the tie rod ends equally in the sleeve until the drag link is the proper length to install. If you need to re-clock the wheel, do so and then adjust the drag link to get a perfectly centered wheel.

[berserk]

Point the wheels straight ahead. Completely remove the drag link. Find the center of the gear box, count turns left to right and put it dead on center. If your wheel is off then someone installed the wheel incorrectly and you will need to fix it. Index straight ahead with a piece of tape if it's off so you can use that as your center point and you can fix that after. With the wheel centered from left to right and the tires pointed straight ahead adjust the drag link to the correct length by turning the tie rod ends equally in the sleeve until the drag link is the proper length to install. If you need to re-clock the wheel, do so and then adjust the drag link to get a perfectly centered wheel.

When I had the truck apart trouble shooting the problem I had my dad help me and we found the center point of the box and marked it with tape and the steering wheel was WAY off.
The thing is I installed the wheel myself and there is only ONE way to install it and retain the use of the horn button. It has a 1-2 inch protrusion for the horn and on both the stock and Grant steering wheel there is only one hole that it can go through.

I also should have mentioned that the steering box is from another truck and so is the steering column. I am not sure what year the column is from but there is no tilt like there was stock, and the box is from a 78 I believe. I wonder if this may have something to do with the problem.

[VileZambonie]

So there you go. Reset it up like I said and leave your wheel crooked for now. Just mark the top with a piece of tape and then get the correct adapter or go back to a factory wheel.

[berserk]

There is no "correct adapter" as far as I know. When I bought the wheel it called for a specific adapter for our trucks.
Regardless, the adapter can only install one way. Here is an image of what it looks like.


And this can only go no one way because of the horn button, protrusion. Example


Same with the stock wheel, it can only install one way. The hole being at the 10:30 position.


I appreciate all your help

[berserk]

Update:
Problem is still not resolved, but another issue has come up. I think the issue of the wheels turning more left than right and the steering wheel being off has been there since my dad lifted the truck in the mid 90's. After I adjusted the drag link to straighten the steering wheel it now turns more right that left.

So the new problem is there is a "dead spot" in the box now. Meaning I think the gears in the box are damaged. After my last post a week or so ago I took it on the highway for the first time with the new set up.
As I was entering a sweeping right turn doing 75 I was slowly turning the wheel right more and more right to make the turn and at one point the truck started going crazy.
It was like I lost power steering for a split second then regained it a split second later and it repeated VERY fast making the front end dance around violently left to right doing 75!!!!
Later I entered another sweeping right turn it did it again only this time I noticed if I turned just a bit further right OR left away from that spot in the steering box it stopped doing it. I also noticed while on a service road it did it also but at lower speeds and less dramatic.
I have a feeling its been there all along but I didn't ever turn to that point until I made the drag link changes causing the box to turn farther right.
I'm waiting to buy a replacement steering box and then I will work on centering it and straightening the steering wheel.

[hatzie]

That's called Death Wobble.  It's more than a little scary.  Steering box play, like your "dead spot", will do this. 

Check that the following are not loose;
Steering box play (you're already handling this).
Top and Bottom Swivel Ball Joints between the knuckles and the axle ears.
Steering rod joints on the Draglink from the pitman arm to the RH knuckle
Steering rod joints at the tie rod ends on the RH and LH knuckle.
Wheel bearings. 
Dana 760X axle shaft universals.
Spring to axle U-bolts.

Toe, camber, and caster being out of whack will give you death wobble but if anything is loose you will never be able to properly adjust the toe.  Camber and Caster are not adjustable they should only be out of whack if the axle is bent.

Lift kits without all the neccesary steering mods will cause Death Wobble as well.
Lift kits without a properly lowered pitman arm  causing extreme angles on the draglink ends.
Lift kits with out modified draglink causing extreme angles on the draglink ends.

If you do wheel bearings or axle shaft universals don't forget the axle shaft to spindle bearings and seals...  Oil Slinger, Outer Axle Seal, Spacer, Axle Bearing Seal, and Axle Needle Bearing.  Usually one or more of these pieces are missing or extremely worn out.
The above five pieces are #48-52 on the Dana 44 parts blowup here--->1973-80 Dana 44 & 1977-83 Corporate "10 bolt" front axles
Don't beat on the spindle directly to remove it.  You'll end up with an oval spindle.

DO NOT drive a lifted truck above 65-70 MPH.

[hatzie]

You can re-set the wheel to center when you do the steering box.  Consider doing the Jeep YJ steering shaft upgrade at the same time.

[VileZambonie]

And is it safe to assume that you made sure the frame isn't cracked behind the box?

[hatzie]

And is it safe to assume that you made sure the frame isn't cracked behind the box?

Good point...    Lifted trucks are worse about that too.  He'll find out as soon as he pulls the old box off.
ORD steering box braces aren't a luxury on lifted trucks.

[berserk]

I did check the frame when I was first building the truck and it had the start of a hair line crack that didn't go through the frame. I was going to get the brace anyway and weld it,  then it got put on the back burner and.....I forgot.
 
But when I replace the steering box I'll check it again and weld the crack that's starting, I can't afford the brace at the time unless I make some side cash.
I think it may just be the box because I had it open to replace that seal plus the steering adjustments, and it had NEVER done this before I did those two things, even when it was still lifted.
But I will reference this thread and Hatzie's suggestions on the front end parts while I have it in the air.
I have done the dry test before and replaced a drag link end and upper ball joint but it has been almost two years and 5000 miles since then.
I'll keep you updated and thanks.

[berserk]

That's called Death Wobble.  It's more than a little scary.  Steering box play, like your "dead spot", will do this. 

Check that the following are not loose;
Steering box play (you're already handling this).
Top and Bottom Swivel Ball Joints between the knuckles and the axle ears.
Steering rod joints on the Draglink from the pitman arm to the RH knuckle
Steering rod joints at the tie rod ends on the RH and LH knuckle.
Wheel bearings. 
Dana 760X axle shaft universals.
Spring to axle U-bolts.

Toe, camber, and caster being out of whack will give you death wobble but if anything is loose you will never be able to properly adjust the toe.  Camber and Caster are not adjustable they should only be out of whack if the axle is bent.

Lift kits without all the neccesary steering mods will cause Death Wobble as well.
Lift kits without a properly lowered pitman arm  causing extreme angles on the draglink ends.
Lift kits with out modified draglink causing extreme angles on the draglink ends.

If you do wheel bearings or axle shaft universals don't forget the axle shaft to spindle bearings and seals...  Oil Slinger, Outer Axle Seal, Spacer, Axle Bearing Seal, and Axle Needle Bearing.  Usually one or more of these pieces are missing or extremely worn out.
The above five pieces are #48-52 on the Dana 44 parts blowup here--->1973-80 Dana 44 & 1977-83 Corporate "10 bolt" front axles
Don't beat on the spindle directly to remove it.  You'll end up with an oval spindle.

DO NOT drive a lifted truck above 65-70 MPH.

I know there had been a LOT of info in this thread regarding my truck, so to clarify it is NOT lifted anymore.
I removed the kit when I bought it from my dad but it was on for 20 years, so there may be parts still worn from that.
And it was a redneck lift he bought from a guy, which included more leaves, long shackles, heated and bent steering arm and blocks. I have removed or replaced all of this. But like I said I will do a check for sure of the parts you mentioned!

[hatzie]

I was incorrect about not being able to adjust the Camber and Caster angles.  Some adjustment can be done with spindle shims and eccentric upper ball joint mounts.
Jeeps use Dana 44 solid front axles so the procedures are similar.  Here's some 101 articles from a Jeep fan site...
http://www.jeepfan.com/tech/toe-caster-camber/
http://www.jeepfan.com/tech/adjusting-camber/
http://www.jeepfan.com/projects/dana-30-and-dana-44-front-axle-toe-adjustment/
http://www.jeepfan.com/projects/castor-camber-shims-install/
http://www.jeepfan.com/projects/castor-camber-corrector-install/

Here's an interesting long winded article on solid live front axle alignment.  It's a shameless plug for tooling that's similar to the equipment I saw in use in the 1970's at the track and in small shops... the basic alignment theory is there as well if you can sift it out.
http://www.4wdmechanix.com/moses-ludels-4wd-mechanix-magazine-diy-beam-axle-wheel-alignment-equipment/?r=1
http://www.4wdmechanix.com/moses-ludels-4wd-mechanix-magazine-do-it-yourself-wheel-alignment-equipment-2/ 

[berserk]

I have a small update on my truck, I got the funds and decided to buy a rebuilt steering box from autozone along with a ORD box brace which will be here Tuesday.

Sunday I removed the old box and was happy to find the frame was still in one piece! There has been damage to the holes in the frame from a time or two when I was young (17yo) and the bolts loosened up. Since then I run longer bolts that go through the box and use nylock nuts on the backside.  I dont see any cracks up close but there are deformations in the surface of the frame from when it was loose. I used a grinder to smooth them and didnt see any cracks.

I am waiting for the brace to install it all and may do my tie rods and drag link ends while I am there.