Author Topic: R12 Refrigerant replacement?  (Read 4871 times)

Offline MY1978

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R12 Refrigerant replacement?
« on: July 06, 2024, 07:53:37 am »
Hello -

Haven't posted in a while but through I would pick some brains on this. I was at a car show over the weekend (spectator not showing) and we were talking to someone showing that had the old R12 system still. My other half commented that you cannot get R12 anymore and if you do find it, it is EXTREMELY expensive. The owner of the vehicle stated that since the conversion to R134A, you can find it on Ebay for reasonable pricing. I have done some investigating and there is something out there call Enviro-Safe Arctic Air and comes in a kit with 4 cans of refrigerant, oil, seal and gauge. Has anyone every used this and if so, does it work.

Thanks

Offline Mr Diesel

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Re: R12 Refrigerant replacement?
« Reply #1 on: July 06, 2024, 11:59:02 am »
I have used Envirosafe before. It is NOT actually R12, but they market it such that a customer might think it basically is. It is essentially propane with the sulfur removed. I don't have any old cans laying around, it might actually be Isobutane (similar to propane). Their website is very evasive about the actual chemical contents but I think it is printed on the cans (legally required).

Propane and Isobutane actually are a good refrigerant replacement and you could use propane directly, but in theory the sulfur added to propane (to smell detect leaks) is potentially corrosive to your cooling system. I say "in theory" because sulfuric acid IS highly corrosive to metal, especially aluminum (which is every metal component of your A/C system). Sulfur becomes sulfuric acid when water is mixed with it, so if you have propane in your system and there is any water vapor in there you potentially have sulfuric acid dissolving your system. Of course a good vacuum pull should remove any water vapor, and I don't know how much water vapor it would really take to be an issue with that small an amount of propane.

Years ago I scoured the internet for people with actual experience doing this. I found lots of strong opinions but hardly anyone who had actually experimented with propane directly.

I have used Envirosafe in 3 different 1980s cars with mixed results. My opinion is that it is a good option, but there are cheaper options more readily available locally. R134 is a good option and is cheaper and more readily available. Don't buy the expensive stuff at the auto parts stores, buy the $10 can stuff at WalMart (it is all the exact same R134). You can also use air duster, also available at WM in the electronics aisle. You will need a little less Envirosafe or air duster than R134/R12, so charge to appropriate pressures using pressure gauges
« Last Edit: July 06, 2024, 12:05:34 pm by Mr Diesel »
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Offline VileZambonie

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Re: R12 Refrigerant replacement?
« Reply #2 on: July 06, 2024, 08:53:20 pm »
There are zero reasons to use alternative refrigerants unless we are talking zombie apocalypse. Convert to R134a and be happy, you will notice no difference. The best thing you can do is avoid mixing and using alternative refrigerants.
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Offline MY1978

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Re: R12 Refrigerant replacement?
« Reply #3 on: July 07, 2024, 03:21:48 pm »
Yeah, that is about where I am at.  I have to find someone to do the conversion, versus a whole new system.

Thanks.

Offline JohnnyPopper

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Re: R12 Refrigerant replacement?
« Reply #4 on: July 07, 2024, 09:55:16 pm »
Is your current A/C viable, i.e. cooling? If yes, find a competent shop to do the conversion.

They, and others here, will say to change out a minimum of parts. It's pretty painless.

If it's not viable, there may be other issues to discover and fix.
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Offline MY1978

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Re: R12 Refrigerant replacement?
« Reply #5 on: July 08, 2024, 05:48:43 am »
It has been YEARS since I used the A/C (stays parked a lot).  Compressor is original.  I do believe there is a leak in the system that needs to be found as I remember having to have my dad (who was a mechanic) recharge it several times.  I will discuss with my local mechanic and see what they say.  Way back in the day, I hardly ever used it except when I was dressed for work and didn't want to show up a sopping mess.  Otherwise, really didn't use it. I am afraid the trick is finding a "competent shop" that is willing to do the minor conversion.  Sorry, but with all the technology and computers now, I feel mechanics have gotten lazy if they cannot rely on the diagnostic wizard machine or the disposable  mentally (i.e. easier to rip it out and replace with new).

I will go to a local car show and find someone with an original system and ask them where they went to have it converted to 134A, or what ever the now "legal" stuff is.
« Last Edit: July 08, 2024, 05:56:00 am by MY1978 »

Offline Shifty

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Re: R12 Refrigerant replacement?
« Reply #6 on: July 08, 2024, 09:43:05 am »
One thing you can do to prevent a step-skipping shop from neglecting, is to lube your compressor manually.  Pull the manifold loose, and funnel a couple ounces of PAG150 or ester in, and rotate the compressor manually, so it doesn't start dry-thus killing it before it gets a chance to live. 

Count on changing the accumulator and orifice tube at a bare minimum, with a better chance of success if the condenser is changed to the serpentine design, vs the original plate and fin.  The original hoses are also non-barrier, and can start to degrade and plug your orifice tube and new accumulator, though I've seen the majority of the r134a conversions get away with skipping this, myself included. 
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