Oil talk

[SUX2BU99]

There's a few things I learned recently about an oil.  A somewhat recent issue of High Performance Pontiac had a great article about modern oils and how most of them do not have the heavy metals needed for old skool non-roller valvetrain components like solid or hydraulic flat-tappet cams. This can be in issue especially upon break-in of a new cam and lifter set. Roller setups have no need for break-in and do not need high zinc contents to provide a little cushion between the cam lobe and lifter face. There are supplements like the GM EOS or other additives like from Comp Cams to use as break-in helpers or even as oil additives at each oil change.

Oils that DO have higher levels of zinc left in them are made for diesel engines and I believe oils that are labeled as "heavy duty" oils. Specifically, Shell's Rotella has a very high level of zinc and that is what I bought for when I break in my new cam. I'll probably always use that now. Just regular dino oil and not synthetic.  15W40 is what I bought since it was the only weight I could find.

I was also recently told that the SAE logo on the bottom which says what standard the oil conforms too also tells a story. If it has a toothed  'gear' around the circular logo, then it's made for roller motors and does not have the high level of zinc. If it does not have that gear, it still does have higher levels.

Anybody comment about this? Anybody I've talked to with engine-building experience since learning this information about the zinc levels have all confirmed this. I'm just pondering now too if that had anything to do with Vile wiping out a lifter? I think that's what went wrong in his 454.

[VileZambonie]

Why do you think my cam chewed right through a lifter in my 454? Yep that's it and especially do to the fact that in sat for longer periods of time without running giving it a lack of lubriaction on start up. I believe this is what started the process of breaking down the cam and eventually chewing through the lifter foot. A prelube system is a good idea for non-roller motors that sit too. BTW EOS is no longer available. They stopped making it.

[TexasRed]

When I get my 355 built, I'll probably run the rotella. Either in synthetic or regular. Although, some of the zinc on that is leaving too . Vile, tell me more about these prelube systems?

[eventhorizon66]

BTW EOS is no longer available. They stopped making it.

EOS is available again under a new part number #88862586.  You can order it through GM parts direct for $12.17 a pint .  I ordered a few pints.  I added a full pint for initial break in of the cam and now I add one forth a pint at every oil change to give my valvoline a little shot of zinc.  This way what I have will last me about 48,000 miles (makes that price a little easier to swallow).

Here's an example of a prelube system like Vile was talking about.  Accusump  I plan on putting one of these on my truck some day soon.

[gezn2]

Yup, this has been getting plenty of talk in other places I hang out too.
The mixed fleet diesel oils are our best bet right now, but you have to read the labels there too because the new stuff is on the shelves
Any diesel oil with the API rating SM/CJ-4 is the new low zinc formula, you've got to find the stuff rated SL/CI-4 or lower for full protection.
So *read* that API/SAE 'cantop' or 'donut' label, there's enough older heavy equipment around that someone catering to farmers or construction people will be able to find you the good stuff for some time to come
My '76 is running *sweet* on 10W30 Superlube from my local Cenex co-op
There *are* some high-zinc racing and motorcycle oils out there that some people are using, the question there is whether 'issues' will come up because they have different additive packages than regular motor oil.....

[VileZambonie]

http://www.king-cart.com/cgi-bin/cart.cgi?store=autoenginelube&product=Engine+Pre-Lube+Kit&exact_match=exact

[SUX2BU99]

Yep, that's why I thought of you and your cam/lifter issue, Vile. I thought this was a good topic to bring up since alot of people here have non-roller motors and would appreciate the info. I know I sure did when I read that article. You'd think that modern oils can't possibly be 'bad' for an older motor but yes it can be.

I just bought a bottle of EOS for $8 Canadian at my local parts store. My guy there is very big on Redline oils as we were having the discussion about zinc. He said they purposely maintain a high level of zinc in Redline.  I'd like to confirm what he said though about the gear symbol around the SAE logo as being for roller motors ie. low zinc.

Another forum I visit of whom an engine builder is on there who really sounds like he knows his stuff is very much against synthetics as the plastics (polymers) they load up the oils with (apparently some up to 25%) doesn't help anything.

Pre-oiler systems are very interesting. I like how they use a pressurized vessel to store oil before the next start-up. I always wondered why vehicle makers haven't come up with something like this yet, or even an electric motor on a gear connected to the oil pump shaft (similar to the starter system) so that before ignition happens, the oil pump is spun for a few seconds.  If people can wait for glow plugs to heat up, they can wait for a pre-oiler to run.

EDIT: I think I answered my own question: roller cams and lifters take most of the need for pre-oilers out of the equation. Still though, the main bearings could use it and perhaps the cam bearings.

[VileZambonie]

Because it costs more $ and cars would last longer so manufacturers would lose $$$$. 

Polymers are good and that's why you use a multi-viscosity oil. Oil has a natural tendency to thin when heated and polymers expand. One of the major properties of oil is cushioning so it's an important part of engineering engine oils. I don't know why that guy thinks it's a bad thing unless he's talking about a high content in a fatter oil like 20w50.

If you are looking for zinc content in oil .12% is a good #. Just find a good oil that's readily available and pay attention to it's recipe as manufacturers can change this without you ever knowing unless you do some digging. EOS is good but it get's costly. I've always used it during break in period only but I would rather a good pre-lube system over a quart od EOS at every oil change.

[JJSZABO]

Is that 12% or .0012 percent of zinc?

[VileZambonie]

Most manufacturers have reduced the amount of zinc due to it's side effects. Deposits that form in the combustion chamber, valves, etc and can build up over time and can lead to spark plug fouling and catalytic converter and oxygen sensor contamination. That's why a little bit not a lot of bit is good still in most daily drivers. If it's a weekend warrior I think a little more would be a good thing personally that's why I suggested looking for an oil that contains .12% or a little higher and don't worry about buying additives.

[SUX2BU99]

I agree that adding a quart of EOS would be on the excessive side at every oil change, but the bottle I bought was definitely smaller than a quart. Anyway, you're right, just using a decent oil with a healthy amount of zinc will help our non-rollers last a long time. I noticed that those "high mileage" brand oils don't have the gear logo around the SAE circle. Wonder if they have a little more zinc in them.

As far as knowing actual levels of zinc, does any manf actually publish this stuff? I don't believe they do on the bottle. Sure would be nice to know though.

[VileZambonie]

I just googled this page, didn't read it and can't vouch for it's accuracy but there's a chart... check here

http://micapeak.com/info/oiled.html

[SUX2BU99]

Not a bad read. Biggest downside to it is it's 9 years old. Most useful information I took away from it was the higher the zinc doesn't mean 'better' protection, it just means it will take longer for damage to occur if metal to metal contact occurs.

[frogman68]

This is what I found


http://www.castrol.com/castrol/genericarticle.do?categoryId=82915470&contentId=7032644&CastrolLinkTrace=5001199955