My '77 K-30/V3500 Monster Truck Build

[silverj]

Love the build BTW.

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[Engineer]

silverj-

The 5-ton steer axle has 11" of travel on its tie rod. That is why I need the 10"s. A 2 1/2 ton military uses an 8" perfectly.

[silverj]

Gotcha, read through most of the thread and missed the 5ton section I presume. 

[Tonka]

Incredible build thread man. That thing is amazing and great job saving that deuce. I was a 63bravo1P in the 82nd and I turned alot of wrenches on old deuces and 5 tons

[Engineer]

Well I guess now that the holidays are over I'll drop in a little update.

I had my springs built this week. Back in the day, old school monster trucks almost all used custom leaf springs at all four wheel positions. Since I decided to go full old school I had 4 leaf springs built by the shop that did the springs for most of the major midwest monster trucks before four links became the norm. The shop I used is St Louis Spring. Years ago they were known as St Louis Spring, and Brake. Some, but not all of the trucks they built springs for are Bigfoot, Bearfoot, Taurus, Crimson Giant (Marvin Smith), and many others that I can't remember off the top of my head. They had one whole wall covered with posters from original monster trucks that they built springs for.

I can't say enough about these guys. Jim was a gentleman to work with. He built my springs exactly the way I specified them. Unlike other people I have dealt with when having things custom fabricated over the years, he never tried to change my plans just to make the job easier on his end. Every comment was "Yep, yep, we can do it". He even bent in a little more arch than he normally would at my insistance.

These springs have about 18 1/2" of arch from the eyes -spring stood up, measured from the floor (17 1/2" from the eye center) to the point where they bolt to the axle. I am hoping to stay away from going with a huge block under the spring. Right now it looks like I can get away with using a 2 1/2" square block. That is much better than the 6" or taller blocks seen on some of the old 80s monster trucks. Overall length with the weight on the springs should be at 60". This is much longer than a factory spring which should give a better ride than using a stock length 52" eye to eye spring with the same 18" of arch.

By using the same springs front, and rear, the weight of the engine and transmission in the front should give the truck a very slight downhill rake to its stance. And by slight, I am expecting it to be so slight as to be unoticeable. From the perspective of looking up at it, the truck should look like it is sitting level. The main concern is that it not look like it is running uphill. That would require more rear block to correct, a situation I hope to avoid.



This isn't the first set of springs these guys have built for me. I had them build a 6" lift rear set for this same truck 20+ years ago, and then sold them as I was looking to go higher with my lift.

Hopefully, anyday now I can start on fabricating the frame. Once the frame is complete this truck should go together pretty fast. I already have most of the major components including all of the body, and interior. The only major component I am lacking is the puller type transfer case.

[dvdswan]

one heck of a build you have going.  beautiful paint work too.  love the blaster, I will be copying that when its time for my build.

[Engineer]

Here is a little update morsel:

I bought this a few years ago for almost nothing. It is a serpentine belt assembly off of a 1990 truck with a 454. It should fit right on my 454. It should even clear my tall valve covers. Some of the parts are brand new, and I intend on cleaning/restoring/painting what isn't new.

The power steering pump is from a hydro boost type brake booster so it should be plenty adequate to supply my hydraulic steering set up.

[cowboy63645]

I must say, you have done some incredible work. Kinda sad to see the puller part of the build disappear but being a child of the 80's I remember all the "old school" monster trucks and it will be quite the site to see a "new" old school truck run around among all the new technology stuff. The paint on the cab looks amazing! I must have missed it but what paint did you go with? I am mildly restoring an 87' K20 myself and looking for paint options. Again, great build this far and can't wait to see what comes next.

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[Engineer]

Cowboy, I used DuPont Nason. It is not a premium paint per sé, but good enough for a "factory" type paint job. Nason is intended for body shops that do quick turn around. Don't get me wrong, it is a good paint, but if you are building a show car there are better options.

IMHO, the Nason clear coat IS better than what GM is currently spraying on our new trucks. It seems the Nason clear resists scratches better than the OE GM clear.

Don't worry about the puller part. As I mentioned earlier in this thread I have a cab located so I could build the puller at a later date. The puller parts aren't going anywhere unless someone offers me a lot of money. Hopefully pulling will regain its popularity in a few years and I can pull locally without driving long distances.

[Engineer]

I'll give this old thread a little update.

Hasn't been much going on, mostly because of the weather. I have been using the time locating parts. Just got some new knuckle boots for when I tear down the front axle to paint it. Probably wont be a whole lot of progress anytime soon as my youngest son has just started his senior year of high school baseball. My calendar looks to be pretty full for a while.

I did score a perfect o.e. GM tailgate. (no pics yet) I was thinking of starting a search to find one, when oddly, one found me........ A sign from God to keep going on this build.  Now I have ALL of my body components, and ALL are o.e. GM.   

Right now my focus is getting the frame built. After I get the frame done this thing should start to look like the finished product more rapidly. One reason I don't have the frame done is because I had a mental block on the frame. I have finally decided to sub frame the factory frame. I had originally wanted to build a totally new custom frame. A custom frame would be stronger, and lighter. However, "back in the day" most (not all) monsters used their factory frame, with reinforcements. By using my factory frame I'll still have the original truck's VIN in the build up. If you look back over this thread you will notice very little remains of the truck I purchased in January 1988, so that will be one more original component. I am thinking this truck will be a look pretty, not a play pretty so a stronger custom frame is not critical. A play pretty will be the next build. 

By using the factory frame to build the monster my sled puller days will more or less be finished. Selling my weights, and weight bracket can help raise funds to finish this project. Already thinking of swapping my Dana60, and NP205 into my 1994 K2500.




High steer arms:

I have looked all over the web and have not seen an idea like this. Nothing on  pirate4x4, or any of the other monster/mud sites.

With the slow pace of this build I am able to explore many ideas, and work them to the fullest. As with my idea of not irreversably altering the 5-tons, I came up with this idea. For steering many guys just weld a bracket to the axle housing, and on the tie rod for their steering cylinder. And most guys are only using one double acting cylinder. I want hydraulically balanced steering so I am using two double acting cylinders. By using two 1.5" bore cylinders cross connected, I will have the same surface area as a single 2" bore cylinder.

I also didn't like the idea of putting all of the steering pressure on the tie rod, and cast steel steering knuckle arms. So, with some pondering, and measuring, I came up with using the old pintle hitch braces as high steer arms. These are 1/2x6" flat steel and should have atleast, the strength of the factory forged steering arm.

Pictured below is the factory 5-ton truck steering arm that transmits all of the steering force from the steering box through the front axle. All of the force is on those four 5/8" studs on the driver's side steering knuckle. I am turning the axle around opposite of how it was positioned in the 5-ton, so that the left becomes the right, and the right becomes the left. In my monster the tie rod will be in front of the axle. In the 5-ton it is behind. Also the pumpkin will be located right instead of left.



By using these I cut them into workable pieces to give me an arm similar to the arm on the opposite (tie rod) side of the knuckle.



These are the bosses, and king pin cap that I can use to bolt my high steer arms to.







These are the arms after having been cut out from the pintle braces.



And here are the arms after being finished, and the opposite end of the pintle brace that was fashioned into an additional support for the steering arm.





Since I will have 2 cylinders there will be high steer arms on both knuckles mirroring each other. I have only showed one side because the other side is the same only in the opposite. I plan on building another bracket that will bolt to the ring of bolts in the center of the axle that hold down the differential for the anchor ends of the 2 cylinders.

I feel like this is a great way to connect the steering without welding to the 5-ton axle. If ever anyone wants to return these parts to a 5-ton army truck they will be able to.

By using the steering arms on the knuckle I will spread out the force applied to steer the truck over 8- 5/8" bolts instead of 4. Also by using the brace that bolts under the steering arm it gives it a means to resist deflection of the upper steer arm. The two bolts low on the knuckle that the brace bolts to are 5/8" as well. This brings the total number of bolts that transmit steering torque to 12- 5/8" bolts. Of course, all bolts will be grade 8+. And by using two different mounting points that are nearer, and farther away from the center of kingpin rotation it puts the whole steering device in double shear. By engineering it this way you lessen the likelyhood that the bolts will break off, or loosen.

Hopefully this set up will greatly diminish the odds of a failure. By using two cylinders, and steer arms, one on each knuckle, the load is spread out over both knuckles, and the tie rod only serves to keep the steering on center.

Steering effort: My steer arms are pilot drilled at 14" from the center of rotation of the king pins. The cross connected 1.5" cylinders have a combined surface area of 3.092 sq/in. A factory GM Saginaw steering pump is capable of reliably producing 1450psi of pressure. This will result in 4,483# of hydraulic force. When you apply that force to the 14" long arm this should result in 5,230 ft/lbs of torque at the knuckles to steer the big 66" Goodyears. If my calculations are correct, I shouldn't have any problems steering my truck sitting still at an idle on dry pavement........And if I do I can always put more air in the tires. 

Hopefully, the next time I post an update it will be with progress on the frame.



Ta for now,
Engineer

[bake74]

     I do believe Engineer, that you should not have a problem with the brackets you made and how you set it up to handle the strain by spreading it out over both knuckles evenly.
     If I read this right and understand it, your dual rams will be centered off the pumkin right ?

[Engineer]

Yes, I will build another bracket for the center. That bracket will bolt to the ring of bolts that hold the pumpkin.

The center bracket will hold the anchor ends of the cylinders.

[Engineer]

Just a little bump to get the thread back to the top of the page, and to give everyone an update. Oh, yeah, and a tease. 

Well here is the tailgate that I mentioned that I bought. $100.00. O.E. GM, no dents, and no rust. Of course I'll strip it to bare metal before painting it. Did I mention it is O.E.? (DISCLAIMER: Not trying to be a snob to anyone who has used aftermarket body parts, but I desparately want all of my body parts to be GM. Since I missed an opportunity to buy one of these trucks when they were brand new, it is kind of important to get back there by what ever means necessary. This '77 was my first truck, so sentimental value and all, it is very critical.)



Here it is with the stainless trim band that I bought about 25 years ago after I first bought the truck. Looks like I will finally get to use it. I bought it and it didn't fit my '77 tailgate, so I just held onto it for all these years. I think I paid $25.00 for it. Money well spent when you consider what these things are going for on fleabay. Before GM discontinued the part number they were selling for north of $500.00. The "Chevrolet" emblem is still available from GM. It is still in the parts chain, and has a good number. Around $35.00 if you are cozy with your dealer's parts man.



Modified the front of the frame for the '87 model bumper. I'm still looking for a different front bumper. The one I have has some minor dents in it. Not so bad that it can't be used, but it is not perfect, so I'll keep searching the swap meets, craigslist, ebay, et.al.



Here is a roll bar that I have been trying to buy. Guy doesn't want to sell, so I may have to bother him more, and more. Throw in a little pestering... Old school monster trucks need a triple/double roll bar it is just not right without it. Oh, yeah, and at least 5 KC lights. 





I have been working on the monster frame, but I want to get a little more done before I post pics of what I have there, so stay tuned......

[FearNoMan78k10]

Dude such an AWESOME BUILD! I love it! You inspired me to now sandblast everything instead of sanding and polishing it with elbow grease lol, man what a great build!

[Engineer]

This update centers on a thread I found on another board. It is relevant to my build because it documents what happened to the Bearfoot 3 truck as it evolved with time. As can be seen with my own build our trucks evolve if we own them long enough. Sometimes for the good, sometimes for the bad. You guys can use your own judgement on wether mine is in the good, or bad class.....

The Bearfoot 3 truck was sold to a guy who lives near Springfield MO. He repainted it black, and named the truck "Mr. Bad".

After a few years, the guy who bought the Bearfoot 3 truck tried to sell it without success. (He obviously didn't have my number. ) Anyhow, after not being able to sell the truck he parted it out, but saved the core truck and built it back into a street truck. After many years of normal use he has started a second rebuild.

While I would have loved to have been able to have bought the Bearfoot 3/Mr. Bad monster truck in it's full glory, at least it still lives on in a very respectable, and dignified state. Far too many of these original "old school" monsters litter the landscape rotting away behind workshops, in barns, along fence rows, and so on. Since monster truck exhibition demanded more racing, and free style, the old school trucks couldn't keep up. Some lived/live on as ride trucks but some were simply parked only to rot away having shed their profitable parts that could be used in other applications.

Take a look at where Bearfoot 3/Mr. Bad is now. If you are a member of that board you might even drop in that thread to encourage Ted in his project.

http://67-72chevytrucks.com/vboard/showthread.php?t=529929




Now for my truck........

No pics today. I have some but will wait until there is more progress.

I have been working on the frame. Yesterday I built the front of the frame, the spring hanger boxes for the front springs, and the ladder bar/transfer case mount that will be in the center of the frame.

I also started disassembly of the puller portion of the truck. I've removed the truss work from the frame. The puller hitch has been removed. Next I'll be removing the transmission, transfer case, and clutch. Nobody has stepped forward to buy any of the puller parts so I'll have them to build a puller at a later date if I so desire.

I am going to go back with a stock drivetrain since I don't see the need for the heavy duty parts that pulling demands. I have a 2wd 465 transmission that I will be using in lieu of the 4x4 trans/trans case. Also going back to a stock type 12" clutch and factory aluminum bell housing.

As has been the case since before this build began baseball dominates my calendar. I am amped up as much as ever to continue work on this build, so check back often and I'll update when I have progress.