bad vibration

[philo_beddoe]

What ever oil you use it important to keep up with the manufactures data for levels of zinc/phosphorus.

There is a continuing decline in today's oil including diesel oils which have detergent that works against its zinc/phos content.

Mobile one, and even walmart brand im sure is fine. Only stated what i heard. But yes, stuff gets worse as they try to protect the environment more. The cars and trucks and consumers take the hit.

So, yes, and from my recent research, it appears that as long as you keep up with that zddp stuff, should be fine.

[SomeTexan]

Yes, Vile is very solid. Both mechanical and theoretical. No worries. I have learned thats a waste of time.

Oh, and i'm not doing the purple oil stuff. I'm set.

I wouldn't call the break in procedure a waste of time, that has been a tried and true method used for decades. It might be overkill for a simple crate engine, but it does make a difference. I know for a fact because of having oil analasis's done, cutting filters open, bearing and cam/lifter inspections. It does make a difference, it just may not be enough for you to worry about with your application.

Hold it!! I meant worring is a waste of time,,NOT the break in period.  See post 289.

I'm planning on treating this new engine like a newborn baby.

Ok, that makes more sense.

[VileZambonie]

I called summit and they gave me a tech number to call, and then i was on hold forever, then lost signal. Oh well. Everybody has a different opinion on this forum, which messes me up!! I aint callin anybody wrong, but you know what i mean. Vile, i'll stick with your advice for the remainder of this engine swap...and thereafter, and then some. I got 5 qts. of the purple stuff.

Yea, Summit has gone downhill over the last 10 years. At one time, anyone that answered the phone knew what they were talking about.

I do have to disagree with Vile, stock flat tappet engines are the ones that need break in oil the most since all new oil is so low on zinc. It's not a big deal on roller lifters, but there are stories all over about crate engines losing cams because of not using break in oil. Even with the additive thrown in. Although I bet most people that use the additive just pour it in, rather than mixing it with the oil before pouring it in the engine. The reason I suggested the Joe Gibbs oil was because its way cheaper than royal purple, and I know a lot of people that swear by it. RP isn't cheap, and since you run it for 20min to break in the cam, then drain and replace with more break in oil for 2-500 miles before going to normal oil, it adds up.

So how is this disagreeing with me?

[SomeTexan]

It's essentially a stock configuration 350 so you don't need to be overly concerned.

I was dissagreeing with this. To me, a stock flat tappet 350 would cause more concern during break in than a race engine that gets pulled apart every other weekend or more often. That stock engine will probably be in a daily driver that is supposed to last.

[philo_beddoe]

We're concerned with a proper break in, but not overly?

[roundhouse]

Check out Joe Gibbs break in oil. Also, Comp Cams, Edelbrock, Maxxima and a few others make good oils for break in. I called a friend of mine that rebuilds engines for a living, he said he won't warranty an engine if they used an additive instead of a break in oil. He claims 3 out of 5 come back with flat cams after a couple thousand miles, max. Usually less than 1000.

exactly why I won't ever install an engine that doesn't have roller lifters

You have to break in the new cam by revving it to the moon for 20 minutes or something like that when you first fire it up.   And even if you do everything right a lot of times the new cam wipes a lobe

I think some people use regular oil for break in then switch to synthetic
Because the synthetic is so slippery it doesn't let the new metal parts wear enough to seal up


We are looking at replacing the worn out 350 engine in our K-10
Not sure if we're going back with a 350 or a LS.  But either way it won't be a flat tappet engine.   It will be roller lifters since the 350 in it now has several flat lobes

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[philo_beddoe]

What did they do in the 60's and 70's with the tens of thousands of engines back then? Are the flat tappet cams a total failure? I dont have the engine knowledge like some of you on this forum, but my current 305 has been cranking since 1977, almost 40 years, and i doubt it was ever really taken care of. My new 350 is going to putt around town, no hauling. And, i plan on giving it extreme care,,,adding the proper oils, additives, clean filters, clean plugs, perfect timing, etc.

All i need is 30 years, by then i'll be too old to drive.

[LTZ C20]

I will say, having done a new engine with a flat tappet cam and a new engine with a roller cam, the roller cam is what I prefer. The flat tappet was a good learning experience, I didn't ruin the cam (that I know of) but for a daily driver, I much prefer the roller, I don't worry about a lobe going flat either prematurely . I know it can still happen but the risk is much lower (knock on wood).

[LTZ C20]

What did they do in the 60's and 70's with the tens of thousands of engines back then? Are the flat tappet cams a total failure? I dont have the engine knowledge like some of you on this forum, but my current 305 has been cranking since 1977, almost 40 years, and i doubt it was ever really taken care of. My new 350 is going to putt around town, no hauling. And, i plan on giving it extreme care,,,adding the proper oils, additives, clean filters, clean plugs, perfect timing, etc.

All i need is 30 years, by then i'll be too old to drive.

Every single flat tappet engine that every left a production line anywhere had to be broken in, so yes, every single one got broken in. Breaking the cam in hardens the two parts so they don't destroy each other and creates a wear pattern "template" if that is how you want to see it. Allowing the lobe and lifter to run against each other for hundreds of thousands of miles in uniform fashion until eventually one or the other just gets plan wore out and goes flat.

Without break in, the "template" isn't created and one part hardens better than the other, is then a stronger material could say and destroys the other.

[SomeTexan]

What did they do in the 60's and 70's with the tens of thousands of engines back then? Are the flat tappet cams a total failure? I dont have the engine knowledge like some of you on this forum, but my current 305 has been cranking since 1977, almost 40 years, and i doubt it was ever really taken care of. My new 350 is going to putt around town, no hauling. And, i plan on giving it extreme care,,,adding the proper oils, additives, clean filters, clean plugs, perfect timing, etc.

All i need is 30 years, by then i'll be too old to drive.

The older oils had zinc and other things in them that helped the lifters live. Basically the special stuff that's in break in oil used to be in all the oil. Flat tappet cams aren't the problem, the new oils are. I do like roller better because they can handle more aggressive valve opening and closing without binding. This in turn opened up cam lobe design options. You can get cams that give you the lopey, raunchy top fuel idle, but are still streetable, low to mid range driver cams. Or you can have the evil high rpm monster nitrous cam that idles like stock.

[philo_beddoe]

Too bad they got all environmentally on us. This article explains things without a bias it seems.

http://www.enginelabs.com/engine-tech/engine-tech-flat-tappet-lifters-still-viable-in-performance-engines/

[roundhouse]

The wiped lobes are a lot more common in Chevy 350s than any other engine
Some oiling issue maybe ?

I've mostly worked on old fords and I've never seen an old 289 or 390 with a wiped lobe.   But almost every old 350 has a flat lobe or two
Usually the very back one on the drivers side , which makes me think it's an oiling issue


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[philo_beddoe]

Does "hard driving" cause cam problems? We used to burn rubber all day long back in the day. Never had an engine problem.

[VileZambonie]

It's essentially a stock configuration 350 so you don't need to be overly concerned.

I was dissagreeing with this. To me, a stock flat tappet 350 would cause more concern during break in than a race engine that gets pulled apart every other weekend or more often. That stock engine will probably be in a daily driver that is supposed to last.

And this is called taking something out of context. I clearly stated

"Any oil formulated with higher levels of ZDDP is fine for your application. It's essentially a stock configuration 350 so you don't need to be overly concerned. Generally the engine rebuilder will supply literature detailing how the cam is broken in or if it even was already. Summit couldn't give you that data?"

[SomeTexan]

Does "hard driving" cause cam problems? We used to burn rubber all day long back in the day. Never had an engine problem.

A lot of times people go overboard on the valve springs. Too much pressure on stock lifters. And a lot of people don't break them in properly.